Van Layne - Amanda Shadforth

[dobermanman]

HI Christopher,

Congrats on having three Ascomannis dogs and I was referring to people that don't identify themselves not you.
A little background. I posted the litter announcement on June 13th at
Melody Faifers request. I've know Melody longer then I've known Lisa and Melody and I used to train together when she lived in Colorado. I had no information about who was whelping the litter and assumed it was the dams owner. The first information I had about the Amanda Shackford situation and her involvement with this litter was when I was contacted by
Lacey Vessel on JULY 30th via PM on another list. I use a different sigline on that list that does NOT list my Germania/Ascomannis dogs due to size restrictions. I don't think Lacey knew about my relationship with Ascomannis when she asked for my input? I am troubled by the fact (if true) that Lacey is keeping Ingo for herself. I do NOT believe that she set out to steal Ingo? This is a very nasty situation but the only villain in IMHO is Amanda.

[Dyenga]

Aug 29, 2010 16:28:54 GMT -5 @Lisa Poppelvig said:

Hi All,

Thank you for your concern and kind comments. Jes and I will be making a public statement on our web page about this whole situation very soon. We have wanted Ingo back from day one and have spent every moment trying to achieve that to no end. In such times, one learns who their friends are and who are not, despite how much kindness and help has been given to many over the years. I think people will find it sobering to read how it really is to be a breeder, much less how it is to have devoted so much of your adult life to this breed and its continuation as a true working dog. Perhaps after reading what we have to say, some will pause and think about it. They will think about what it is to covet an animal like he is a prize at a town fair and fight over him, never once giving a moment of thought or respect to the people who bred him and never stopped caring about his welfare.
Thank you,
Lisa & Jes Poppelvig
Kennel Ascomannis
www.ascomannis.com

Don't place yourself on a higher level......Ingo has a good home now and there are absolutly no legal grounds for you to claim Ingo. You even tried in the past to claim Ingo, but our Dutch law is clear about that, Besides: you only want to claim Ingo to place him directly at Tori's or Paige place....

[Tori]

I don't know who the above person is and where they got their information... but for the record, I have never asked for, wanted, or suggested Ingo should reside with me. Lisa asked if I could help her by providing my knowledge of the situation and contacts of who had Ingo to aid in his return. I did just that.

I am sure Ingo is a wonderful dog, but my hands are full with my crew of dogs, career, and family. I am not looking to start a collection of dogs at my home, unlike others.

[rsdogmann]

Thomas,

I have no desire to be at war with you. There were several people that were interested in an answer to the original question that started this thread.

Being that you owned 3 of Lisa's dogs, I personally found it to be disturbing that you did not contact her regarding Ingo, after you received contact from a complete stranger ( Lacey)
who was now supposedly trying to place an Ascomannis dog.

For those of us that know Lisa and the passion that has for her dogs, are also well aware of she likes to keep up with her dogs.

I am not surprised to hear that Lacey may have misled you in some way about her intensions with Ingo. It appears that there have been many misleading's in the events surrounding this entire ordeal.

My only concern at this point, is that Ingo be rightfully returned to his breeder as she has requested. ( apparently, some....dyenga ) do not believe that a breeder has a right to the dogs that they have produced ?

That Amanda, and all of those protecting her, and protecting god knows what at this point, have to face some consequences for their actions.

Best wishes..

[dobermanman]

Aug 30, 2010 15:49:58 GMT -5 rsdogmann said:

Thomas,

I have no desire to be at war with you. There were several people that were interested in an answer to the original question that started this thread.

>Since you just joined this list two days ago. Please introduce yourself in the
>new member section as list owner Vadim requested. Please sign your posts
>so I know who I'm talking to and maybe explain what brought you here.

Being that you owned 3 of Lisa's dogs, I personally found it to be disturbing that you did not contact her regarding Ingo, after you received contact from a complete stranger ( Lacey)
who was now supposedly trying to place an Ascomannis dog.

>I don't know how much more plain I can make it. Lacey contacted me
>AFTER she'd contacted Lisa and been asked to send Ingo to Paige B
>There was no reason for me to contact Lisa, since she was already aware
>of the situation. From my very first reply to Lacey I made it clear that I
>trusted Lisa completely and that if it were my choice I'd place Ingo where
>she wanted. I'm really confused about what you find "disturbing"
>I'm disturbed by all the anonymous new members we seem to have
>attracted and how busy they are making assumptions and charges
>about subjects and people they are ignorant about.

For those of us that know Lisa and the passion that has for her dogs, are also well aware of she likes to keep up with her dogs.

>What is your relationship with Lisa? How long have you known her and do
>you own any Ascomannis dogs?

I am not surprised to hear that Lacey may have misled you in some way about her intensions with Ingo. It appears that there have been many misleading's in the events surrounding this entire ordeal.

My only concern at this point, is that Ingo be rightfully returned to his breeder as she has requested. ( apparently, some....dyenga ) do not believe that a breeder has a right to the dogs that they have produced ?

>Sadly, Lisa has no legal right to Ingo. Lacey has (like it or not) physical and
>legal possession of Ingo. Lisa's only legal resource is/was against the original
>owner for apparent breach of the right of first refusal clause in their contract


That Amanda, and all of those protecting her, and protecting god knows what at this point, have to face some consequences for their actions.

>I agree about Amanda but who do you think is protecting her? How and
>why?

Best wishes..

[julie]

Aug 30, 2010 15:07:27 GMT -5 Dyenga said:

Don't place yourself on a higher level......Ingo has a good home now and there are absolutly no legal grounds for you to claim Ingo. You even tried in the past to claim Ingo, but our Dutch law is clear about that, Besides: you only want to claim Ingo to place him directly at Tori's or Paige place....

A good home? Really? Says who? I'm sure the people who sent him and helped GET HIM SENT to this country in the first place probably said the same about Amanda. And the person who is coveting him so fiercely now has disappeared from public view and won't return any emails from the breeder. Sound familiar? Why SHOULD anyone trust that?

[fireball3]

Is this all going somewhere, because it seems to be circular. What do you want Thomas to do now? What do you want Tori and Melody to do specifically now? Or is it new people to respond to the sordid story that you all want since it seems to have been hashed to death on the other forum with the same old people over and over?

We get it- Amanda is a bad person -avoid her, the person with pictures turn them in so she can be charged, Ingo needs to go to Denmark because his home here isn't right, Thomas is evil for not knowing the whole story before it was possible for him to know it and thus not saying the right thing to lacey, Tori shouldn't have sold a dog to amanda, melody shouldn't have bred a litter with her, and there's some sweeping under the rug by people who rescued the dogs although rescue isn't the right word. Did I miss something??? Great, can you get to what you want to happen by endlessly talking, or go back to the other forums?

Holly

[dobermanman]

Hi Christopher,

Look at the join dates for some of the people posting on this subject. These are the people I'm talking about.
Where do you get the idea that Lacey has any intention of breeding Ingo or otherwise "exploiting him"
The last PM I got from Lacey before all this stuff broke here was that Ingo had gained close to 20 Lbs since being rescued.

[Dyenga]

My only concern at this point, is that Ingo be rightfully returned to his breeder as she has requested. ( apparently, some....dyenga ) do not believe that a breeder has a right to the dogs that they have produced ?

The contract has no legal ground in Holland. The first owner, and the 2nd, were both Dutch people. So according the Dutch law the breeder has no legal grounds to claim Ingo! Ingo worked very good for the 2nd owner and finally he went to Amanda. What she did is very...very bad! The transaction to his new owner in the States is complety legal! I know the whole story, the people involved, I've got all the files. And no, I don't explain more about this case becausse we respect the people we advice!

Ingo is no moneymaker, but a very lovely Dobermann!