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Post by Jeynie on Aug 29, 2010 15:00:07 GMT -5
First hand information? You mean like from one of the two women who did not call the police, did not call animal control, insulated an animal murderer from legal charges, left two dogs behind, did not contact the co-owner/breeder of one of the dog's, did not return said dog until threatened with legal action and has not, will not return another of the dog's to his breeder but has instead placed that dog with... herself?
So, I would say that the only two first hand accounts lack a certain tenability.
The best anyone can do is piece together the story as told to second hand parties by the rescuers scavengers themselves, weigh that against the known evidence and apply logic and critical thinking in reading between the lines.
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Post by Lisa Poppelvig on Aug 29, 2010 16:28:54 GMT -5
Hi All, Thank you for your concern and kind comments. Jes and I will be making a public statement on our web page about this whole situation very soon. We have wanted Ingo back from day one and have spent every moment trying to achieve that to no end. In such times, one learns who their friends are and who are not, despite how much kindness and help has been given to many over the years. I think people will find it sobering to read how it really is to be a breeder, much less how it is to have devoted so much of your adult life to this breed and its continuation as a true working dog. Perhaps after reading what we have to say, some will pause and think about it. They will think about what it is to covet an animal like he is a prize at a town fair and fight over him, never once giving a moment of thought or respect to the people who bred him and never stopped caring about his welfare. Thank you, Lisa & Jes Poppelvig Kennel Ascomannis www.ascomannis.com |
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Post by nubbinsawaggin on Aug 29, 2010 16:59:44 GMT -5
Lisa I sincerely hope you get Ingo back... I am so sorry for what you and Brownies breeder, and the other's, have gone through. The thought of what these animals have gone through disturbs me on awhole different level... and the actions of people with regards to the"rescue" and everything that has gone on there after (from the bits and pieces I have been able to piece together) is an embarrasment to the human race... and as for Amanda....
perhaps she should be locked in a crate in a 100 degree heat in a garage with a bark collar on and left to starve... I have no compassion for any being cappable of doing that to a life.
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Post by sonterra on Aug 29, 2010 17:47:15 GMT -5
I have changed the title as some of you can not read. My point in the last post was that this is AMANDA's fault and no one else deserves to wear this horrible topic BUT her!!! Not Thomas (who has NOTHING to do with this) and not Melody.
Amanda Shadforth (or whatever her name is) is the one responsible for this horrific tragedy. Amanda was the one that starved the dogs, locked them in crates with electric bark collars in 100 degree F heat.
As well this is not a witch hunt!!! Quit turning your pitch forks and fire on people whom have nothing to do with this or with Amanda. I am sure you can all ask politely, and you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Thank you to those whom have posted with new factual info.
Thank you to Lisa for posting here. This is a breeders worst nightmare, and I am very sorry that you have to go thru this. That Tori has to go thru this, that Melody has to go thru this. But most of all, I am so utterly sorry for the animals that went thru it.
Please focus your anger on the one whom deserves this, and that is Amanda.
Tamara McIntosh
*you will notice that I sign all my posts with both my first and last name, please quit referring to me as "sonterra", it just shows me you can't read.
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Post by nubbinsawaggin on Aug 29, 2010 18:35:21 GMT -5
I'm sorry Tamara, are we not suppossed to be angery that the "rescuers" did NOT call AC or the police, and subsequently Amanda is walking away scott free from tourturing and murdering HUNDREDS of animals?
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Post by jimmydoberman on Aug 29, 2010 18:43:07 GMT -5
I have changed the title as some of you can not read. My point in the last post was that this is AMANDA's fault and no one else deserves to wear this horrible topic BUT her!!! Not Thomas (who has NOTHING to do with this) and not Melody. Amanda Shadforth (or whatever her name is) is the one responsible for this horrific tragedy. Amanda was the one that starved the dogs, locked them in crates with electric bark collars in 100 degree F heat. As well this is not a witch hunt!!! Quit turning your pitch forks and fire on people whom have nothing to do with this or with Amanda. I am sure you can all ask politely, and you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Thank you to those whom have posted with new factual info. Thank you to Lisa for posting here. This is a breeders worst nightmare, and I am very sorry that you have to go thru this. That Tori has to go thru this, that Melody has to go thru this. But most of all, I am so utterly sorry for the animals that went thru it. Please focus your anger on the one whom deserves this, and that is Amanda. Tamara McIntosh *you will notice that I sign all my posts with both my first and last name, please quit referring to me as "sonterra", it just shows me you can't read. Yes, thank you for clarifying that Amanda Layne Shadforth aka Amanda Kelley alone is responsible for the abuse/death of the animals that were in her possession BUT my post has nothing to do with that. At this point the refusal to return Ascomannis Ingo to his breeder, Lisa Poppelvig technically has nothing to do with Amanda. If that's not the fault of Amanda, whose is it? |
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Post by rsdogmann on Aug 29, 2010 18:49:48 GMT -5
Yes, Amanda is ultimatley to blame for the poor condition, and possible death of some of the animals in her care. I believe that most of us hearing about this story will be haunted by it for some time.
However, the parties that have played any role in protecting Amanda from legal prosecution, or in protecting themselves from whatever, and or other unnamed people that choose to stay hidden, adds insult to injury to this entire string of events.
The dogs that were not returned to their breeders immediately.
So these parties are not completly innocent in their own actions and behaviors that have surrounded these events.
Although I am not interested in a "witch hunt" I am interested in seeing the wrongs be made right, and justice being served to Amanda for her deeds.
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patrick
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 133
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Post by patrick on Aug 29, 2010 19:36:26 GMT -5
Hi All, Thank you for your concern and kind comments. Jes and I will be making a public statement on our web page about this whole situation very soon. We have wanted Ingo back from day one and have spent every moment trying to achieve that to no end. In such times, one learns who their friends are and who are not, despite how much kindness and help has been given to many over the years. I think people will find it sobering to read how it really is to be a breeder, much less how it is to have devoted so much of your adult life to this breed and its continuation as a true working dog. Perhaps after reading what we have to say, some will pause and think about it. They will think about what it is to covet an animal like he is a prize at a town fair and fight over him, never once giving a moment of thought or respect to the people who bred him and never stopped caring about his welfare. Thank you, Lisa & Jes Poppelvig Kennel Ascomannis www.ascomannis.comLisa; I completely understand your concern about Ingo but why didn't you already take action after J. VanderAart (first owner) got rid of him? |
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Post by julie on Aug 29, 2010 20:02:20 GMT -5
Lisa; I completely understand your concern about Ingo but why didn't you already take action after J. VanderAart (first owner) got rid of him? Wow, really Patrick? First of all, what does that have to do with Lacey refusing to return him to Lisa? Second of all, I can easily think of why she might not have a problem with him being re-homed within her country with a home she probably approved of vs. all the way across the pond to a home she didn't. Then of course having him go through this horrible experience. It's no wonder to ME why she would want Ingo back now, seeing as she is the one that brought him into this world and what he has had to go through recently. I find it shocking and disrespectful that anyone would be pointing fingers at LISA! |
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patrick
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 133
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Post by patrick on Aug 29, 2010 20:32:15 GMT -5
Lisa; I completely understand your concern about Ingo but why didn't you already take action after J. VanderAart (first owner) got rid of him? Wow, really Patrick? First of all, what does that have to do with Lacey refusing to return him to Lisa? Second of all, I can easily think of why she might not have a problem with him being re-homed within her country with a home she probably approved of vs. all the way across the pond to a home she didn't. Then of course having him go through this horrible experience. It's no wonder to ME why she would want Ingo back now, seeing as she is the one that brought him into this world and what he has had to go through recently. I find it shocking and disrespectful that anyone would be pointing fingers at LISA! First of all I CERTAINLY didn't mean this question as disrespectfull. Every dobermannworkingbreeder earns my respect. Just asking a question that's it. btw I didn't ask it to you did I? Sorry if I don't crawl into some gossipgroup ass and howl with the rest of them. @ Lisa: AGAIN I don't certainly mean my original question as disrespectfull and I hope you don't see it that way... |
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Post by julie on Aug 29, 2010 20:47:21 GMT -5
It was disrespectful and has absolutely nothing to do with the current events. Your defensive attack of a response is duly noted however.
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Post by sonterra on Aug 29, 2010 20:50:57 GMT -5
I'm sorry Tamara, are we not suppossed to be angery that the "rescuers" did NOT call AC or the police, and subsequently Amanda is walking away scott free from tourturing and murdering HUNDREDS of animals? You can be as righteously angry as you want, but it is certainly not the responsiblity of THOMAS or MELODY, or anyone else NOT associated with Amanda OR the situation. As well if you can substantiate your claim of hundreds of animals dying, that would also be more evidence... but no he-said-she-said, actual proof. If you would like to name names of people YOU are mad at and have facts to substantiate them feel free. I am not telling you not to be mad, what I am telling you is to direct it at the person (people) responsible. Jimmydobermann wrote: At this point the refusal to return Ascomannis Ingo to his breeder, Lisa Poppelvig technically has nothing to do with Amanda. If that's not the fault of Amanda, whose is it? end quote Well Jimmydobermann it sure as HELL is not THOMAS'S fault!!! So WHY start this conversation with Thomas's name?? I am just going to play devil's advocate here for a minute... have any of you actually been involved in a animal cruelty case??? I have helped/fostered with a couple and here is my take... Animal control confinscates the animals, then they are held as evidence until a trial, now this could be 14 days it could be several years depending on how hard the person fights. Those dogs would sit at animal control until the trial. In, most likely small cement runs, by themselves, seen to about 2-3 times a day. Then after the trial they would probably try to send them off to rescue. MOST RESCUES DO NOT ADOPT TO PEOPLE WHO TRAIN IN BITE SPORTS!!! OR DOGS WHO HAVE A HISTORY OF PAST BITES!!! AND the dogs would have been sterilized. As well alot of rescues do NOT adopt outside of their area. If the dogs had gone to a rescue Lisa/Tori/Melody may have NEVER gotten the dogs back, OR even been told any info on where they went. AND had any of the dogs bitten the handlers in the Animal Control OR gotten into a dog fight, they would probably be euthanized. As well.. how many warnings would she have gotten from animal control? She would have at least been giving a time line to change, and in that time who knows what would have happened??? And maybe that was time some of those dogs didn't have. I am not excusing anyone's behaviour because I DO NOT KNOW THE STORY! I am simply saying that it looks like there is much more than *I* certainly know going on. Tamara McIntosh |
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Post by nubbinsawaggin on Aug 29, 2010 21:02:25 GMT -5
Well... I can only speak to the HUNDREDs of animals tortured and murdered on her property since the there were 200 birds there and the Avian community seems to be taking this seriously... There are people there that are following up on birds that she had in her care, as it appears some were rescues... they will be following through on this, now that it has been brought to their attention anyway... as for Thomas I don't know who he is....
There are ZERO EXcUSES as too why animals were left in her care... NONE! It seems money has been put over the welfare of the remaining dogs in her care... and (as I have heard from MANY people in rescue)... they WANT breeders to step up and take responsiblity for their dogs.. in fact they will call the breeders to see if they will take the dog back... They have enough dogs that no one cares for... why would TRUE rescuers keep a dog from the breeder!
Edit too add... You say rescues dont adopt to people who train in bite sports... WELL SHE ADOPTED FRIDAY, a starving boxer from a shelter...
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Post by rsdogmann on Aug 29, 2010 21:32:50 GMT -5
The real question should be, "why is there this hide and seek game going on with Ingo ? "
It has been clearly stated by Lisa, that she wants Ingo back at this time.
The start of this thread was asking just that and what involvement if any others may have played a role in keeping him from her.
Why is he being denied to her ?
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Post by dobermanman on Aug 29, 2010 21:45:56 GMT -5
Thomas, It sounds as though you did put in good word for Lisa Poppelvig. However, you say "thank you for your efforts for this boy " I am assuming that you must have had some information on how Lacey came to have Ingo. Did you in turn, relay this very important information to Ingo's breeder....your breeder. I think that most of us, would have made an immediate attemt to relay this information to the breeder. I think that this is why your loyalty is being questioned. People who hide behind handles and don't have the common courtesy to sign their names DON'T get to question my loyalty ! IF you'd actually read my first reply to Lacey. You'll realize that Lisa had been contacted and there was no need for me to notify her. "Lisa knows her lines and I'm sure she is suggesting an appropriate person for you to place the dog with." Do any of you no name busybodies actually own one of Lisa's dogs? It is clear from my first reply to Lacey that I fully support Lisa and always have for the eleven years I've owned a Germania/Ascomannis Dobermann. I did NOT realize that Lacey was keeping Ingo. What she told me was he was in a nice home where his job was setting on the couch. That "sounded" pretty good for a dog that had been in such a horrible condition with Amanda. If Lisa has any questions for me she has my email address. The rest of you self righteous no name trolls can kiss my fat white ass |
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