dobe pro's over gsd's

[ukdobe23]

Hi all.

I need some help! I fell in love with dobes when i was reserching war dogs at school. I wanted one ever since. To my horror i found that working line dobes were quite rare (even more so in england)
Ive heard erything from , they dont bite, they dont track, they are stupid, even they are finished as a working breed (all from gsd owners).
Ive also spoke to a handfull of dobe owners that have been succesfull in sch/ringsport/pp so i know dobes work and work well.
I pick my pup up in 2 weeks and i cant wait to get started! I spent so long picking out the best working line that i could. I have been to schutzhund clubs every weekend.
I really want to do well and rub it in the gsd followers faces. But i dont want my impatiants to ruin my dobe.

Help!

Kareem

[lynn]

Not giving any advice as I am a novice, but when you see a dobe work they are second to none! I have both and I wish I hadnt ruined the dobe by my pet training,he tracks really well(schutzhund style) and can do some good obedience but I ruined his prey drive and he is not consistant in protection, he is just too polite. The power of my boy is fantastic and when people struggle to hold their GSD I laugh as to me they seem lightweight in comparison. I have seen a couple at trials and they have done well, especially the Aritaur and Chancepixies seem to crop up all the time.
I have weakened and have an 8 month old GSD bitch who seems very biddable and I am hoping I am learning to be a better handler and I will be more successful with her.
I look forward to getting advice like you and wish you a great future with your new friend, they are a different class!
Best wishes Lynn

[ukdobe23]

Thanx Lynn

Im getting my boy from aritaur. Aritaur and chancepixies are the only kennels that are serious into sport. I chose Aritaur as they are just as big on health and character as they are on working drives and good looks.

They have been so good with me in answering my questions and pointing me in the right direction. I really cant fault them.

Its a shame your dobe has had to give it up but if your planning on getting another dobe at least youl know what to look for. What line is your dobe from? You did well to get him tracking? Especially if he didnt start working from being a youngster?

Take care!

Kareem

[rosamburg]

It is difficult to find a good working dog, period. With GSD's there are a lot more of them being bred. I mean a LOT more. There are very, very few good working line Dobermann breeders in the whole world. From there it is a crapshoot how well a puppy will work out. If you get a very good Dobermann and get some good training then it can hold its own. However these are two variables that will be difficult to achieve. It is not likely that every puppy in a well bred working litter is going to be an exceptional working dog.

That said, I have not seen much in Schutzhund training in the UK that was real impressive, at least from video's I have seen posted. And that is from the working GSD people. From what I see I have not seen many handlers or trainers there that are in any position to bad-mouth anyone.

If you want a Dobermann to work in the GSD world you just have to develop a thick skin, and let the comments go in one ear and out the other. If you want to become successful with a Dobermann you have to first develop your skills as a handler, this takes years even under great trainers (which I have not seen much evidence of in the UK). Then you have to develop relationships with good working breeders. Then you have to get lucky with the puppy you get from them. Try to just have fun, Good luck and don't take things people say so seriously. Develop a game plan to get ahead of their game.

[ukdobe23]

Thanks for the tips rosamburg

Unfortunately that is true of the uk. I feel i have found as good a trainer as i can. He consistantly takes his dogs to the wusv and as a trainer if he doesnt know something he does his homework.

I cant stress how much time and effort i have spent trying to make sure i get this right. Im doing the best i can with the best weve got here in the uk.

If the dog has the capability ile take him as high as he will go. I want my dog to enjoy his work as much as i do. If i do well i would like to source a dog from over seas ive seen a couple of breeders that i like the look of. Vom Waringhof/Ascomansis to name a couple. It wont happen for a few years. If you have any good lines for me to look at i would appreciate it.

Thanks for your help

Kareem ;D

[lynn]

Hi Kareem
My boy is by Icarus di Altobello out of Nabrasca Dolly di Altobello. I got him from Ray Hawkesbee of del Animus Dobermans. He breeds for health and temperament and my boy is superb as a family dog but not sport. He just took to tracking but I think it was partly that I felt he would do it and just got on with it. Sometimes I feel we dobe owners put ourselves under too much pressure.there are not great GSDs as well. My trainer had dobes in Germany so he is sympathetic. I met Martin at a trial and he was a nice guy and very helpful, I saw him work and ,to me there is no comparison watching a Dobe.
There is I think, a Schutzhund club which is mainly Dobermann near Dover.It would be nice if in England there was more sharing of information and less arguing, I have found it difficult unless you are a dog-handler in the Police or Forces to ask any questions or have any opinion on working dog forums in England.
I am envious of you starting with your new pup and hope you enjoy yourself as much as I have.
Lynn

[ukdobe23]

Martin is a good guy. He has done so well with bracco. I wish i was at the trial where he got a 98 in tracking and beat all the gsd's that particular day!

Bracco (aritaur histabraque) is the sire to my pups mother, im hoping his calmness comes out in my pup ive been on the sleev with bracco and he is such a joy to watch (or launch at your arm!) he is so focused.

The sire to my pup is aritaur notorius and his father has sired lots of good working dobes he is f hiram abif royal bell. martin is planning on putting notorius through some trials. He has a bit more defence in him but has a very calm but full grip in bitework and has been on channel 4 for his tracking abilities.

So who knows. But wele see!

Kareem

[handrolled]

Hi Guys,

I didn't really want to get involved in this thread but feel 'you' are misleading the forum with your opinions of sport dogs in the UK.

Yes Shutzhund is mainly done by GSD's in the UK but that's because there's very few Dobes capable be it lack of 'working 'line animals or people experienced with Dobes.
It's my opinion there are NO working line Dobes being bred in the UK ,
the only dogs with any experience of sport are bred from UK line show bitches with foriegn stud dogs being used , in other words 'show line animals'. I only know of one other person involved with the sport here who has a 'working line' animal and as one breeder who has been mentioned told me 'there's no demand for high drive Dobes here and he wouldn't breed them because they're not good enough for show' - only grading SG at show.

Kareem you mention you feel like an embasador for the Dobe in the UK can I point out the Great Britain Working Doberman club was set up 5 yrs ago and we had 3 clubs where people could train spread right across the UK from the north to the south coast , trials/seminars were held with German Judges / helpers - Bitten from Denmark and Fabrizio Ravanelli/ Ingar Anderson put on a training session. Martin Pabst and Uwe his helper (Warrenhof) also put a seminar together for us but I can honestly say 'we' weren't over sub scribed at any of the events. The general concensus was most Dobe owners were apathetic to working their dogs that is why ' we ' split the club into show folk via working folk.

I would recommend if 'you' are serious about training Sch' be careful who you choose to help you , there are those whose experience comes from travelling abroad and getting the full story and those that train at home and their dogs only title on home ground - there are very few in the UK that have the knowledge for Dobes after all they're not GSD's.

We have the problem here that we can't get a pup imported to us until the pet passport is obtained therefore the animal will be at least 9-10 months old at the earliest before we get it, it's imperrative 'our' breeders rear the pup correctly before import .
Trust in the breeder is essential.

[ukdobe23]

Hi

Thankyou for your input. I appreciate what you are saying and i agree completely that their are no 'dobe working kennels' in the uk, Just breeders that work their dogs.

The simple fact is i want to work a dobermann in a sport that it was developed for. I have not imported a dog for one simple reason. All my dogs live in my house the way i want them to, as im sure all people who own dogs would agree.

My dogs learnt all their house rules in the fist few months i owned them. 8-14 weeks. I feel that is a very important time for human dog bonding time. Which goes back to trusting a breeder, as you said. A breeder can be the best thing in the world but they are not me.

So i have to do the best i can with what ive got. I have only been involved with dog sport a short while. I would have loved to attend those seminars had i known about them. I plan to go to the idc's in vrbove to (to spectate )

I love what the ukda are trying to achieve and i will support them any way i can.

Kareem

[lynn]

Sorry as I have said I am new to dog sports, have always competed on a horse(but now I dont tend to bounce!) I find it a different world, rather uptight, if I am honest.I hope to see dogs of all types competing and everyone enjoying themselves and those in the know imparting their knowledge to us lesser mortals.
Best Wishes Lynn

[lynn]

ps Just a thought but why dont dog breeders use more AI or even embryo transfer or importing the bitch in whelp(which my breeder did) Is it just not feasible?

[handrolled]

Hello Lynn,

Don't worry about your experience we all have to start somewhere.
With ref' to using AI it has been crossing my mind of late to do that but only if I know the stud dog , not just rely on paper qualifications they don't tell 'you' the full story.
A lot of dogs look good on the pedigree but what they don't tell us the dog took 3yrs to get their title and never worked off 'their' own field then retired from sport to reap the rewards at stud.
My male is like this his forbeares never really worked and one bit a judge at trial + spectators , needless to say he was retired from there.
Didn't find out about that until my male was over a yr old.

The big problem with Dobes here is getting the dog to shift their drives and this must be done at an early age , ofcourse we need a good dog trainer who understands dobes and bets this stage before putting pressure on the dog. The main fault is dobes here have problems with 'defense' I've spoke to many trainers here and they say ' if I put the dog into defense it loses it' , this shouldn't be since defense should be hardwired into our breed. It should be there genetically we should just help to control it.

Take my advice but don't think it is gospel there are many in the UK that think I talk sh** but then that's what I think they say.
The only thing I say is from personal experience with no motive to take any money from you , I've never made a penny from 'our' breed. Infact I was advised not to breed my bitch because 'working line' dobes weren't wanted or needed in the UK.

Brian.

[ukdobe23]

Please forgive my ignorence. Im getting the impression that you Breed/work your dobes Brian. Do you breed for work? it would be great to get some help if you are involved in the uk dobe scene?

Kareem

[handrolled]

Hi Kareem,

I never mentioned the UKDA but you did can I ask what it is you love about them and what they want to achieve? they were originally members of GBWDC and we had many trials and seminars under that banner. They chose to form their own association using our ex chairman and since then haven't held a single trial or seminar, we even discussed holding a ZTP but was informed if we did and 'their' dogs failed they would still breed from them.

Brian.

[handrolled]

Hi Kareem,

I've just noticed your question, yes I have a working line bitch and Iam thinking of a litter from her. I 'm a founder member of GBWDC and apart from health testing and 'working' our dogs we didn't agree with some members who left to form UKDA .
Can I ask where abouts in the UK are you based, I ask this because 'we' are in the north east of England.
Brian.