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Post by iswhat6 on Apr 20, 2012 10:54:05 GMT -5
cashmando1, THE ANSWER IS NO. You cannot train in the sport at a high level without corrections. I will also say purely positive training in anyway is wrong. They do not understand purely positive methods and a dog trained with proper corrections will be a much better dog in every way, whether in the sport of just a family pet. . Here is why, dogs by nature do not understand postive reinforcement, they learn it, which is great and worth using, BUT, in nature dogs only know and understand compulsion. When a puppy is with its mother and littermates or in the wild on the streets, in the wild in the woods as wolves, WHATEVER, they learn are are taught how to behave by either their mother, or the dog or dogs that are above them in the order of things, (alpha being king ruler). These subordinate dogs are not taught by corrections, not< positive reinforcement (alpha dog does not say, "do that again, and I'll let you have a little more food") . They are taught with a fast, hard, meaningful correction. This is very important to understand, fast, meaningful AND ITS OVER. The problem people have is they hold grudges, take much more time to get over things which confuses the dog. We stay upset for at quite a while, and the dog can see this. Now they think they are doing things correct, but that big crease between our eyes is telling them something different. Mama dog, corrects hard, fast and meaningful, then licks the dog to give it a bath a split second later. If you as a trainer can teach your dog that a correction is part of life, not the end of the world and move on quicly, YOU will be a dog trainer!! and have a great dog, who loves and understand you.. I hope that answers your question.
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Post by iswhat6 on Apr 20, 2012 10:59:57 GMT -5
I see my words got a little screwed up in my post, lets start from, ....These subordinate dogs are NOT taught by POSITIVE methods. then go to (alpha dog... and it is correct.. sorry for typosssss...
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Post by iswhat6 on Apr 20, 2012 11:04:34 GMT -5
One more thing on my rant, people also do not time the correction correctly, which also confuses the dog. The window of opportunity to teach the dog using a correction is short. Miss it too often and you will have a problem. This is why many choose postive methods as if you make a mistake it is no big deal. this is also why a lot of trainers who aren't very good swear by positive methods, it is easy.
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Post by iswhat6 on Apr 20, 2012 11:28:39 GMT -5
LOL.. annddd.. the corrections are too hard or too soft for the age, hardness of the dog. Correct a young dog or soft dog too hard, and you could have a problem.. correct a HARD dog too soft, and you might be in the ER.. Not easy
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Post by dobermanman on Apr 20, 2012 16:12:48 GMT -5
Iswhat6
Please do an intro and list you accomplishments. You have a lot of opinions. Are they earned? :-)
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Post by cashmando1 on Apr 27, 2012 6:39:37 GMT -5
Good points iswhat6, thanks for the input.
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Nellie
Titled Dobermann
Member - Service Dogs of America
Posts: 186
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Post by Nellie on Apr 27, 2012 16:36:09 GMT -5
I know lot's of agility people and some AKC/CKC obedience people train without corrections and do pretty well. But I can think of many times where without a correction things probably would have gone a different direction..lol! I'm not sure about agility but I have been told that there has never been a UDX or OTCH dog that has been trained strictly by clicker (totally positive training). So, even the best of the AKC/UKC obedience dogs require some form of compulsion/corrections.
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