|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 11, 2012 14:02:43 GMT -5
Patrick, Teinahme DV-DM 1996 18 Platz/ Landesguppen-FH Vizemeister also. "who never owned a workingdoberman" these are not my words! Lisa
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 11, 2012 14:26:53 GMT -5
Cashmando1, High levels without corrections- "in the protection phase" Not to be negative but I find it an interesting question from someone who trains in IPO and as you did state you don't THINK it can be done. But here is my input- You mention you are having a tough time explaining why it would be difficult to train 100% in motivation in this sport! Maybe you could explain the drives a dog needs to do protection training and what it takes to give a clear picture while in drive. Also what a working line dog/genetics means (don't leave out the physical part) or simply tell them to go to Armin Winklers Shutzhund Village website a good read. He has a new website as well but it is more for the K9 PDS but good articles and information that can cross over to sport dogs too www.K9trainingexperts.com BTW Cashmando1 whats your name I never see you sign your posts, Lisa
|
|
patrick
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 133
|
Post by patrick on Apr 11, 2012 14:40:01 GMT -5
Patrick, Teinahme DV-DM 1996 18 Platz/ Landesguppen-FH Vizemeister also. "who never owned a workingdoberman" these are not my words! Lisa My sweet Lisa....a landesgruppe -FH is quit a diffent thing than "many entries at the DV-DM" I'm probably more in that list myself and i'm NO German Anyhow this topic is about correcting a dog. I'm gonna tell you a secret. I buy a book and learn all my dogs how to read. After a few months if they studied the book quiet well i take them out on a field and stragenly enough this seems to work Greetings Patrick
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 11, 2012 14:49:27 GMT -5
Sorry Patrick, these are 2 different things she was Regional FH Vizemeister! two different titles, sorry I grouped them together, Also I never said "many entries at the DV-DM" many titles! but you are correct the thread Was about Training without corrections not about someones credentials as a breeder and titles! Lisa
|
|
|
Post by John K. on Apr 14, 2012 10:14:59 GMT -5
train however you want....it all boils down to having fun out there.
|
|
|
Post by cashmando1 on Apr 16, 2012 17:40:06 GMT -5
Hi, Patrick a) I doubt that you ever had a working-doberman b) therefore I contend that you are a little naive and have no idea of working-Dobers c) your argument is nonsense: a dog can not and do not want to please someone, he only seeks his own advantaged) most of the dog owners are unable to "read" their dogs and to understand them. They interpret their dogs human qualities, which they do not have!!! But perhaps you know it yet: The dog is descended from the wolf. I don't want to be unpolite, but such statements make me crazy. Ulrike Wow! Your comments kind of set me back at bit! And also make me laugh at the same time. I'm pretty sure Patrick has had a few working dogs in his life..lol! I have a dog that for the most part is very willing to please. And I believe he gives me good obedience in protection because of his willingness. Sure he gets corrections but not like some dogs I have seen. I totally disagree that dogs do not like to please their handlers!! If that were the case I believe most dogs would either shut down or disregard us completely in trial situations. No doubt that has happened but I think for the most part many dogs are truly trying to please. Is it for their own gratification in the end? Maybe.
|
|
|
Post by cashmando1 on Apr 16, 2012 17:49:30 GMT -5
Cashmando1, High levels without corrections- "in the protection phase" Not to be negative but I find it an interesting question from someone who trains in IPO and as you did state you don't THINK it can be done. But here is my input- You mention you are having a tough time explaining why it would be difficult to train 100% in motivation in this sport! Maybe you could explain the drives a dog needs to do protection training and what it takes to give a clear picture while in drive. Also what a working line dog/genetics means (don't leave out the physical part) or simply tell them to go to Armin Winklers Shutzhund Village website a good read. He has a new website as well but it is more for the K9 PDS but good articles and information that can cross over to sport dogs too www.K9trainingexperts.com BTW Cashmando1 whats your name I never see you sign your posts, Lisa Lisa honestly why would I have to explain to someone as experienced as YOU what drives dogs need to do the sport? Why do you find it interesting that I ask this question?? I have only been in the sport a couple of years. I have not seen one dog trained without corrections. Yes I have seen dogs trained with very few but on the whole in my opinion I don't think it really can be done. Sorry but I asked for opinions, or examples. None of your comments have given me any insight. Overall you have been a little negative actually. No wonder why people tend not to ask a lot of question on this forum...to bad. For the keyboard of: LYNN ANDERSON
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 17, 2012 1:46:54 GMT -5
Lynn, You said YOU where having a "Tough Time" explaining why you thought it would be very difficult to train 100% in motivation in this sport- I gave you an idea of how I would explain it to someone! I also gave some very good information to articles on a sport/working dog website (sorry you feel I did not contribute any insight ) Since when did "interested" become negative? No you do not need to explain to me what drives a dog needs to do in this sport but thanks, I did that home work along time ago and one of the websites I listed gave me some good info. The reason I asked your name is because you never sign your posts and I read you where getting a Gamy/Eiko puppy and I was "interested" Lisa
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 17, 2012 2:03:57 GMT -5
Lynn, "I totally disagree that dogs do not like to please their handlers" I think what Ulrike means is dogs are opportunists that is why they study people and read us well! she is German and sometimes translation gets lost- but it is a fact that canines are opportunist who seek to please themselves. She is also correct that most people do not know how to "read dogs and understand them and think they have some human behaviors!
|
|
|
Post by cashmando1 on Apr 17, 2012 15:56:56 GMT -5
Lynn, You said YOU where having a "Tough Time" explaining why you thought it would be very difficult to train 100% in motivation in this sport- I gave you an idea of how I would explain it to someone! I also gave some very good information to articles on a sport/working dog website (sorry you feel I did not contribute any insight ) Since when did "interested" become negative? No you do not need to explain to me what drives a dog needs to do in this sport but thanks, I did that home work along time ago and one of the websites I listed gave me some good info. The reason I asked your name is because you never sign your posts and I read you where getting a Gamy/Eiko puppy and I was "interested" Lisa Sorry then, maybe mis took what you where trying to say. Honestly Lisa you came across as a little confrontational in your post to Patrick so assumed you were being a little sarcastic. Anyways in regards to the Schutzhund Village articles I personally have always found them to be helpful and have always referred new people to them. And yes I got a Gamy and Eiko pup, I will start a new thread with pics. just have not got around to it. Lynn
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 18, 2012 2:10:17 GMT -5
"a little confrontational in your post to Patrick" No not me, I simply stated that his comments about Ulrike where off the mark! in fact he didn't reply to her post at all just attacked her reputation as a working dobermann breeder and sport woman. Funny thing is it did quite the opposite the attacks on her and her breed sent many people to her working dog page and website! where they in fact could see her many accomplishments and more than decent dogs. If he would have attacked her comments to him on her post that's his right. Then Bitten got involved and some how Ulrike's comment on the wolf where taken out of context like she was referring to the dobermann breed specific-Right! There was plenty of confrontation going on but not from me. I know a FR guy who is trying to train his male Mali without corrections it's not going so well so I do not think your question is out of line, I look forward to follow your puppy's progress and see some pictures- Lisa
|
|
patrick
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 133
|
Post by patrick on Apr 18, 2012 13:12:09 GMT -5
"a little confrontational in your post to Patrick" No not me, I simply stated that his comments about Ulrike where off the mark! in fact he didn't reply to her post at all just attacked her reputation as a working dobermann breeder and sport woman. Funny thing is it did quite the opposite the attacks on her and her breed sent many people to her working dog page and website! where they in fact could see her many accomplishments and more than decent dogs. If he would have attacked her comments to him on her post that's his right. Then Bitten got involved and some how Ulrike's comment on the wolf where taken out of context like she was referring to the dobermann breed specific-Right! There was plenty of confrontation going on but not from me. I know a FR guy who is trying to train his male Mali without corrections it's not going so well so I do not think your question is out of line, I look forward to follow your puppy's progress and see some pictures- Lisa Sweetie I thought you said the topic was about correcting a dog while training...I appreciate people supporting a breeder which is great but will you please stop using my name in your posts...thank you While it's great that a breeder his or her website is visited a lot it should be due to the fact that the dogs speak for themselves NOT because of some useless agrument on a forum. Get my point I never knew Burgstatte, Aurachgrund among others had to make themselves intresting to get their visitcounter on their webpages up.. Patrick
|
|
|
Post by octavian2 on Apr 18, 2012 14:07:06 GMT -5
No problem "sweetie"
|
|
|
Post by Bitten on Apr 18, 2012 14:10:53 GMT -5
Lisa - --> Then Bitten got involved and some how Ulrike's comment on the wolf where taken out of context like she was referring to the dobermann breed specific-Right! <-- Why don't you read Ulrike's entry as it's written - and NO, I did not take it out of context - period. English is not my first language either, and to that I also know German VERY well - so please stop all this nonsens. Thank's
|
|
|
Post by cashmando1 on Apr 18, 2012 23:09:07 GMT -5
Well besides a few earlier posts this thread has gone nowhere and I'm disappointed. I always like to have good conversation about dog sport, however for some reason this has hit a sore spot. Like usual in this damn sport of Schutzhund not many can get along. It kills me to think that there is probably so much knowledge could be passed but because of the inner fighting it never happens. I am done. Over and out...as usual.
|
|