Longer-Coated Dobes?

[Bitten]

Jan 25, 2011 11:24:51 GMT -5 @Kara Fitzpatrick said:

when herr dobermann created the breed, the first dobermanns had longer coats... I don't know how else to describe it to you?

have you seen pictures... please look.
you can see the longer (not extreme- more like a rottis coat) coat in the dobermann from the past in pictures.

there are other things that look EXTREMELY different from todays dobes, especially show dobermans... like head and chest size.

example... this is Grönland, son of Bosco and Cäsi, some of the earliest dobermans:
www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/70828/Prinz-Matzi-von-Groenland

Think this link might be usefull too:

www.geocities.com/jotunheimdobes/Archive-Article-Origin-01.htm

[aweaver]

I own a 1947 edition of "The Doberman Pinscher" by Philipp Gruenig and one of the things I love about it is the pictures of the earlier dogs. While the first two pictures, Alarich v Thueringen (1987) and Graf Wedigo v Thueringen (1901) could be argued to have a "wooly" undercoat (as much as you can tell from a picture), I would have to say that the rest of the dogs depicted in the book have coats similar to what we see today. I doubt there were ever many "wooly" dogs that existed.

Alissa

[Bitten]

The Dobermann Coat:

Looking back into the History of the breed Dobermann, and in regard to the quality of its coat – we find that:

- the “original” dog / mutt from which the Dobermann was elevated, consisted of various breeds of dogs, and amongst these, breeds which had a longer coat and under wool

The Butcher dog, had ancestors like the now extinct ”German Sheppard” – a dog breed which had longer smooth hairs and under wool. This trait was supported by similar trait from the Rottweiler, which also was a part of the “mutt” – As in all elevations of dog breeds, the breeders first look at more important alterations, which might “fit” their ideas, and the coat of the new breed Dobermann was not a high priority at the beginning, but was amongst the requirements within the final goal for this new breed. 30 years of crossbreeding on a mutt, trying to obtain the more important traits the breeders at that time were looking for, also means that a trait like the length of the coat, the breed having under wool etc. might have become more consistent in that period of time, and had to be refined at a later point within the new breed, but at a more appropriate time.
The purpose of the breed, was personal protection – and it’s well known, that the longer the coat is, the easier it is for a perpetrator to hold on to the dog, a disadvantage Louis Dobermann was well aware of, hence the requirement towards a short, sticky and somewhat rough coat. As the breed - German Pinscher – was already present within the original “mutt” the trait for shorter hair was present to, and the elevation of this trait within the breed Dobermann, was already attempted before the recognition of the breed in 1895, but primary afterwards, and through the use of:

- Manchester Terrier
- Grey Hound
- Weimeraner, plus even other breeds of hunting dogs

After the breed recognition, several experiments with the breed were being made, and all in hope to improve various traits. By out crossing to the previous breeds, the trait for shorter, sticky and somewhat rough coat was obtained, and this form of coat became more consistent. Other experiments, like trying to obtain a more “rich” colour of the fur, through breeding to the – Gordon Setter – failed, but at the same time, also added to the trait of longer more smooth fur – a backslash for the breeders and the breed, but seemed easily corrected by breeding back to the Grey Hound and Manchester terrier.
The genetic heritage of coat, is though recessive – and the breeders of that time only had tools like looking at the dogs and the preferences these specimen’s showed – so the genetic heritage has not totally been bred out, and is an under laying genetic brick within the whole DNA puzzle of the breed, which in between might pop up, and which have been seen in various breeding’s.

[Jag]

and some puppies born with tails almost "naturally docked"?

same with other breeds... I would love to hear other odd things that pop up with other breeds, I just can't remember the few others I know about after a long day at work.