impact on joints

[new oldtimer]

Some background:
Doberman owner since 1979, and Dad had a pair before that. I have been without at least one Doberman less than 6 months since then. 1st Dobie, I bought from a farmer.....since then I have had both rescues and purchased Dobies.
My first Dobermann from Europe was in 1999. Lost him to HD. In the short time I had him, I realized that this was a much different dog than the ones I had previously. His drive was unreal. When I lost him to HD, I picked up a rescue to dampen the pain of loss. She is the typical "pet" Doberman, easy to train(just the livability stuff...sit, stay, etc. NO bitework type stuff). Apparently the rescue people were impressed with her progress(she had been a little difficult to housetrain at the rescue) because a couple weeks after they came to check (that I was treating her according to their policies), I received a call from the rescue asking if I was open to another.
The dog in question was a German born female, definitely from working stock. Her owner had turned her over to the rescue, the reason given was that the dog was too energetic & the owner could not control her. Apparently she was a terror at the rescue as well.
Just my opinion, but I think she was just not getting enough to do. I "adopted" her and she has been an awesome pup. Driven but not uncontrollable, she just has a very high level of energy. Given the fact that I am a farmer, she has plenty of opportunity to burn off her excess energy because she goes wherever I go....almost all the time. We spend a total of about an hour a day just making her follow commands but most of the time I just treat her as a kid....making her mind and act right always, even if she is not performing a "job". She runs loose around me as I work around here but she rarely strays very far from me.
Finally...here is my issue: I am concerned about her joints. She has always liked to jump up on things, Round hay bales, the hood of the tractor, etc. I never worried much about it because she was not getting that high off the ground. Problem is when she would jump down... it is not like she tries to minimize the impact, conversely, she jumps as high as she can then lands on the ground. Again, as long as she was falling less than 6 feet, I did not worry too much. Even though she jumped gracefully, her landings were more of a semi-controlled crash. Lately, she has decided she likes to climb trees. Now I am really getting concerned because she seems to have no fear of heights. I rigged a fence around the big tree she was climbing behind the house but as soon as I was not paying attention she just climbed the fence and started up the tree anyway. Concern that she might land on the barrier made me take it down. As long as I pay attention, I can keep her out of the tree but if she gets a chance she climbs right up it. The lowest limb is ~4 ft from the ground and not a problem if she jumps from there. of course that does not suit her. There is another big limb about 8-10 ft from the ground she likes to lay on....it is like she thinks she is a leopard or something. Unless I am right there to make her climb to a lower limb before jumping, she will jump directly from where she lays...8 or more feet from the ground.
Maybe I am overthinking it but that seems like it would be very hard on her growing bones and joints. She is eleven months tomorrow. Maybe if she had finished growing, and was mature it would be ok but I am not sure since her joints and bones are still pliable.
I realize every dog is different but is there a general idea of a limit for younger dogs and the concussion their young bodies can take?
I don't make her jump...I have to make her NOT do it but just because she wants too ...does not mean she should IMHO. Also after loosing one to HD maybe I am too paranoid.

You learned thoughts???

[Lianne Rae]

not sure of you name didnt see one ? oh my gosh your girl sounds like a hoot I would love to see video of her climbing the tree sounds to funny!!!! I really dont think this will have anything to do with HD but im sure she could injure her self badly with a bad fall for sure!.
I would try to put a stop to the tree climbing by simple training ie correction for going near the tree and reward for listening and coming back to you.
or by building a barrier around the tree such as plastic barrels or something slippery ie house siding that she cant climb.
this I would do just for her safety as a bad fall could end her life easily.
I wish you all the best with her and your other rescue my hat if off to you for your rescue efforts!
lianne rae

[New Oldtimer]

Thank you Lianne Rae for the kind words. I apologize for not introducing myself. I am Steven.
Possibly my post was too wordy but I obviously have not made my problem clear. I thought that on a working forum there would be someone who had an idea of how much concussion a young dogs joints could be exposed to without damage.
My examples were not clear, I guess. I tried to give an idea of the heights she was jumping from. The tree climbing is not the real problem. My concern is that she is putting too much pressure on herself at too young of an age. The tree is not the only thing she jumps from. She likes to be high up for some reason(maybe I should have named her Snoopy). This pup is very athletic and I am concerned she will hurt herself by taking on too much.
This thread has had 27 views and you, Lianne Rae, are the only reply I got so I must not be clear enough. So I will restate:

Do you(whomever) limit the amount of concussion a young dog takes? Do you limit the amount of "work" you let a young dog do?

This pup will go till she falls over and I am positive that that amout is too much. Just because she has the drive to go until she drops, Does not mean she should. I have not let her exhaust herself to that degree since I understood that she will go that hard. She seems to have little self preservation instinct about overworking.

PS. I know that HD is not a factor, I simply meant that maybe I am overprotective since I already lost one to a joint issue, which in my mind the HD was in a limited way. My experience with HD was that when I saw the X-rays...there was no cushion between the hip socket and the ball at the top of the leg bone. I do not want this pup to damage the cushion between her bones and felt like this was the place to ask, maybe I was wrong.

[LRadcliffe]

I never start any jumping with young dogs, untill they are over a year old. Their bones are soft and growing. How do you know that HD is not a problem? has she had a X-Ray to confirm this? you can cause hip problems for dogs at this age letting them jump like you have, also what you feed them in their young growing years can also effect their bones. I am sorry you ask for a opinion and here is mine, stop letting your girl jump like this! you say she jumps 8 or more feet to the ground? that is not good. it is just commen since... it sounds like she is a very special girl, and has a wonderful envirment to live, please keep her safe. When she is a bit older and you have had her hips X-Rayed then you can start jumping her, dobermanns do love to jump and I had a roof climbing dober girl a long time ago so I know some love to go to high places. My anwser to you is stop her, she is to young. You might have to keep her on a long line for a while so you can stop her from this, I wish you and your girl a nice long life together! ;D

[Lianne Rae]

hey Steven great to meet you.
Well yes I would limit the amount of hard play time and impact type of things like jumping and hard running untill the pup is older and the joints close.
I will allow a little bit of jumping and tugging and fun but no full blown out running ie road work or high jump untill later in life , but that is only my opinion.
good luck send us some pics
lianne

[New Oldtimer]

Thank you both, LRadcliffe & Lianne Rae, and please do not apologize for having a strong opinion....that is what I asked for. I do limit .....and will continue to limit her. She has done some things I would not have encouraged, but I did not know she was so inclined till she was exposed to the opportunity. I already have taken steps to limit her access to "jumping/climbing points", my concern was that I was overprotecting her but your opinions have convinced me that I am on the right path in limiting the impact on her joints.
In answer to the question,

"How do you know that HD is not a problem?"

I do not know yet, but My understanding is that HD X-rays cannot be trusted till after one year of age. That is why I am waiting a few more months till she is over a year old.

you can cause hip problems for dogs at this age letting them jump like you have, also what you feed them in their young growing years can also effect their bones

I suspected as much, that is why I came here asking for guidance from someone who actually worked their dog(s).

You might have to keep her on a long line for a while so you can stop her from this

I considered this....problem is that I live on a large well fenced farm and even the yard is fenced with privacy(solid) fence so I just hated to restrict her from free time in the yard. My compromise was this, since she lives in the house, I just do not let her free in the yard. As long as I am with her, she might as well be on a line, she sticks so close...... so there is no problem as long as I am with .....and focused on her. No more free play outside unless one of us is there to supervise.

but that is only my opinion.
.........................................
I am sorry, you ask for a opinion and here is mine

:)Thank you both for your unvarnished opinion, that is what I wanted.....

[julie]

The vast majority of people believe (including me) that exercise needs to be controlled and limited in such a way as to protect the developing skeletal system of puppies/young dogs. Puppies of course still need a lot of exercise, but you are right that jumping shouldn't be allowed. Also jogging, long sessions of fetch or frisbee, or anything similar that puts great amounts of torque or impact on the body should be avoided. Instead long walks, allowing free running on soft natural surfaces and short, controlled bouts of fetch are considered acceptable. The normal age that the growth plates are closed and people recommend not having to control exercise as much is at around 18-24 months, depending on the size and growth rate of the individual. Your girl sounds like such an extreme jumper though, that honestly if it were me I would continue to try to curtail it throughout her life. That sort of repeated heavy impact even on an adult dog can cause excessive wear and tear on the body and possible injuries. You don't need to put them in rubber rooms, but common sense should be used.

She sounds delightful and you sound like a great home. Good luck keeping her grounded

[New oldtimer]

The normal age that the growth plates are closed and people recommend not having to control exercise as much

Thank you VERY much. I knew I was at the right place to ask....I just needed more patience.
Growth plates, I knew there was a name for them, I just could not remember it .......that was the terminology I was looking for. Thank you for a general age range of when they close up.