Tell me again how PP training is outdated

[Vadim]

news.google.com/news?q=home+invasions&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=ZmBTS9DHIpKOswPi5fHYBw&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBsQsQQwAw

Tell me again how PP training is outdated? And I don't want to hear about your guns unless you have a carry permit and/or have it strapped to you anytime you are at home.

[Vadim]

www.kmbc.com/news/17855214/detail.html

Dog Stops Sexual Assault

[Nellie]

We are two single women living in the boonies, sort of. I know of several times when just the presence of our Dobermanns have caught would-be-wrong-doers short. I don't think I would be without at least a few.

Strange folk have approached my vehicle only to do an about turn when the dog pops up. Wouldn't be without one there either.

Outdated - I think NOT.

[mich]

Vadim, that endless google list you posted is pretty shocking. The number of home invasions is much greater than I had imagined. I’ve read many times that burglar's will choose another home upon hearing barking, no matter the size of the dog. I would imagine the same is true of a home invasion? The visual deterrent of a large dog, the ability to provide early warning before a doorbell rings and a suspicious / cautious attitude towards strangers are a Doberman’s natural skills and I’m glad their reputation continues to be perpetuated in movies like Beverly Hills Chihuahua.

I don’t know much about PP training. Is it common or even advisable to cross train a dog in Ring or Sch and PP? Are there potential conflicts in training for both?

[Vadim]

Mich,

I think of Schutzhund and Ringsports kind of like martial arts like Karate or Judo.
While they are sports they do teach/develop a foundation and technique necessary for self defense.

Now is that enough for a real fight? Well that depends on the person/dog and what other training/exposure they may have.

As for how much additional PP training may conflict, that depends on the dog too.

I see some dogs that get civil/pp training and their sport work improves, others get dirty in the work. Others still are not affected at all. They know the difference and respond accordingly.

Personally I am willing to loose a few points to potentially save a life....

[mich]

Thanks for the response - interesting info.

[dobermanman]

HI Vadim,

The training IS outdated, not that a Personal Protection dog isn't needed, but
most of what passes for PP trainers are backyard bozos with a sleeve and a whip. All they do is back tie a dog, agitate the hell out of it in defense and when
it finally bites they think they're trainers :-(

Now if you're talking about an individual who trains his/her dog in a recognized
protection dog venue (Ring, PSA etc. NOT K9 ProSports) then that's a different story.
The majority of self proclaimed "professional" PP dog trainers, I wouldn't let clean up after my dogs, much less "train" them :-)

[sonterra]

Jan 19, 2010 10:15:10 GMT -5 dobermanman said:

HI Vadim,

The training IS outdated, not that a Personal Protection dog isn't needed, but
most of what passes for PP trainers are backyard bozos with a sleeve and a whip. All they do is back tie a dog, agitate the hell out of it in defense and when
it finally bites they think they're trainers :-(

Now if you're talking about an individual who trains his/her dog in a recognized
protection dog venue (Ring, PSA etc. NOT K9 ProSports) then that's a different story.
The majority of self proclaimed "professional" PP dog trainers, I wouldn't let clean up after my dogs, much less "train" them :-)

John Q Public does not need to train their dogs to a competition level, quick and dirty does the trick. Yes I would agree that most PP trainers miss a great deal of the puzzle, but the question is.. is it functional?

For probably 98% of criminals.. a barking dog with teeth bared.. means "SCAREY MOFO". To a sport person this would signal a dog on the edge. How often would a person come across a criminal who actually has any kind of schmick in regards to dog training or behaviour?

I am friends with a trainer in Edmonton who does this kind of PP work. Several of the dogs he has trained in this manner reside with battered women. The dogs do their intended job in deterring the abusive spouse. This dog will probably not ever see a really hard push or challenge. Could it crumble under stress, absolutely... but so would at least 50% of sport dogs out there as well.

Tamara McIntosh

[Vadim]

Jan 19, 2010 10:15:10 GMT -5 dobermanman said:

The majority of self proclaimed "professional" PP dog trainers, I wouldn't let clean up after my dogs, much less "train" them :-)

Many people who have been jaded by poor trainers who call themselves PP trainers often assume PP means bad training.

Finding a good trainer is not easy period. How many bad schutz trainers out there compared to the few really good ones?

Thus finding good PP training can be a challenge. However quality PP training exists and is not exactly the same as sport training even when talking about PSA or ASR or APPDA. Just as KNPV dogs receive additional training to be successful on the street. Sure some things transfer others don't.... Now let me say I agree the best trainers usually compete in something. Heck even cops have service dog competitions, but competition training differs from PP or field work.

Here is just one example of the quality personal protection training that's out there if you look hard enough. www.premierprotectiondogs.com/
I am sure Ivan would tell you his PP training is not the same as his sport training. it may have a similar foundation but then things change.

There are other good ones but like anything else, you do have look hard to find quality...

[flashthe3rd]

i think if you train a dog for PP it should be a good starting base for the ScH training etc. the dog would or should perfrom better when going for a ScH title.