|
|
Post by fussglogen on Jan 12, 2010 10:54:24 GMT -5
Hi guys! I have a problem. My boy will not bark while agitated. He will go for a tug but silently. When he is on the "sausage" (we still do not use sleeve with him), he will calmly hold it. Full bite, cannot complain...
I tried different methods so far to teach or encourage him barking on command. I would play tug or ball with him, will get him super excited and then withhold the toy, encouraging him to bark (?) but he will sit and look at me with this goofy face, lol. Also, I tried to wait until he is barking and would say "Gib laut", good boy!. But then I try to say "Gib laut" and he would just look at me, clearly does not understand what I want!
Please, help! Am I missing something here? What the best way to go?
|
|
|
|
Post by grabichler on Jan 12, 2010 13:04:57 GMT -5
Hello,
How old is your dog?
I assume you are working with a helper ...
You / the helper just need to be patient. My young male didn't bark at the beginning either. He would strike silently. At first we didn't care. We worked on targeting etc.
Then, after a while, I worked with a different helper who just didn't present any action and would only move at the slightest noise my male made, and that taught my male to bark. Now he barks really well. I did not say anything during this process and let him figure it out by himself.
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
Post by sonterra on Jan 12, 2010 14:26:13 GMT -5
Hi,
This dog is very new to this training. Some dogs just have higher thresholds to induce the bark. As you progress and the dog gets more dedicated to the game you will have the ability to ask for more, which could include the bark. And sometimes the dog just gets frustrated and leaves the field with no bite whatsoever to make him that much more focused and frustrated. Unless the dog is very into the game it can be hard to frustrated the dog to a level where they will bite.
My own dog used to be very silent in his training, however as he has progressed and more pressure has become a part of the training he has amped up his barking. However I do not require nor particularly like a dog that barks during bite work.
Are you pursuing schutzhund training or ring training? For ring the dog does not need to bark in fact it is usually discouraged.
Pursuing ring training and schutzhund training at the same time came be counter productive to accomplishing titles in either. It is confusing for the handler and confusing for the dog. If you want to stay at the lower level I guess it wouldn't really be that much of an issue, however if you really want to excell and succeed it is best to focus on one and do that sport well.
Tamara McIntosh
|
|
|
|
Post by fussglogen on Jan 12, 2010 14:32:55 GMT -5
My boy will be 10 months old on Jan 20  May be I want too much too soon... Here is my "silent" Dobie, lol   |
|
|
|
Post by fussglogen on Jan 12, 2010 15:00:42 GMT -5
Are you pursuing schutzhund training or ring training? For ring the dog does not need to bark in fact it is usually discouraged. Pursuing ring training and schutzhund training at the same time came be counter productive to accomplishing titles in either. It is confusing for the handler and confusing for the dog. If you want to stay at the lower level I guess it wouldn't really be that much of an issue, however if you really want to excell and succeed it is best to focus on one and do that sport well. Tamara McIntosh Hey, Tamara, I hear you about training in both. It can be confusing! I guess I will need to make a decision soon... I do continue training in SchH with him because I can train him to BH myself and with my current lack of free time, it comes handy that I can train him whenever I have time without going out to train. Also, my son helps me great deal "kinda" being a "helper" (I know, I know, do not laugh!  ). My point is that if my professional life will contunue being that crazy, it pretty much will take from me the ability to train to some higher than novice level. PS: Tamara, it's me - Elsa and Gino! I think you figured this out |
|
Nellie
Titled Dobermann
Member - Service Dogs of America
Posts: 186
|
Post by Nellie on Jan 12, 2010 15:14:43 GMT -5
What we have done that will help some dogs is to work it on the field with a dog that is a good barker. The helper will give a bite to the barking dog, then go to the one that doesn't bark. No bark = no bite. The helper will do this 4 or 5 times and if the dog still won't bark, put him up and try again later. We will try this twice each session. As soon as the quiet dog emits any kind of a sound he gets a bite. We require more 'noise' for each bite till he learns to bark.
As I said, this doesn't work for all dogs, but I have seen it work more often than not. Frustration in not getting the bite and seeing it go to another dog will usually create a bark. It is helpful for the helper to have an extra 'sausage' just in case it is needed while the barking dog is holding the first one. LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by fussglogen on Jan 12, 2010 15:26:59 GMT -5
What we have done that will help some dogs is to work it on the field with a dog that is a good barker. The helper will give a bite to the barking dog, then go to the one that doesn't bark. No bark = no bite. The helper will do this 4 or 5 times and if the dog still won't bark, put him up and try again later. We will try this twice each session. As soon as the quiet dog emits any kind of a sound he gets a bite. We require more 'noise' for each bite till he learns to bark. As I said, this doesn't work for all dogs, but I have seen it work more often than not. Frustration in not getting the bite and seeing it go to another dog will usually create a bark. It is helpful for the helper to have an extra 'sausage' just in case it is needed while the barking dog is holding the first one. LOL I apparently tried to do what you describing but not correctly. Here what I was doing: My girl (15 months old) knows "Gib laut" very good. She will bark any time I ask or if she is agitated. So, I would play tug with both of my dogs simultaniously, not letting them to bite, and say "Gib laut" - my girl will bark and gets the tug. At this point my boy just goes and tries to get the toy from her! Your post got me thinking and now I know what I am doing wrong. I play OFF LEASH, so I cannot control my boy from getting the tug! If I leash him, like I would do while working with helper, and will repeat the same "play" routine, may be he will be more frustrated and will do at least som noise that I will be able to reward! One of those "A-ha!" moments! Another very valuable point from all of your posts, guys, that I expect immediate results and this just not gonna happen. I need to be more paitent and repeat, repeat, repeat the exercise until I will see some results! Thank you so much!  |
|
Nellie
Titled Dobermann
Member - Service Dogs of America
Posts: 186
|
Post by Nellie on Jan 12, 2010 15:40:27 GMT -5
Correct - sorry I wasn't more specific. Both dogs should have a handler and be on leash.
|
|
Nellie
Titled Dobermann
Member - Service Dogs of America
Posts: 186
|
Post by Nellie on Jan 12, 2010 15:43:26 GMT -5
Please keep us informed as to how it is progressing. There are other tricks you can try.
|
|
|
|
Post by LRadcliffe on Jan 13, 2010 1:50:46 GMT -5
My 3 year old female did not bark untill she was 2 years old!!! I tried everything you can think of. Her prey/play drive was good. She barked like mad at home, in fact she has a big big bark. I joined a new club with a really experienced helper. The first time he worked her I told him " if you can get her to bark I will be a very happy woman!!" he came from behind the blind and the first thing she did was BARK like mad!! She never stopped after that in bite work. She is a bitch that is very motivated by the fight with the helper more than the sleeve, but has a nice full hard bite too. I really can not explain why it took so long, I had almost given up. Some dogs just do a silent guard till something really motivates them some way. Do not give up!
|
|
|
|
Post by rosamburg on Jan 13, 2010 3:18:07 GMT -5
From a young age we don't do much with the dog without them being active (barking). In foundation protection work the bark initiates the movement of the tug. For us it is even carried over into obedience and into the reward. The dog may get a break and play command but they still have to bark to get the tug. The following article presents a glimpse at the philosophy: www.wcgssc.com/index.php?categoryid=24One other method that can stimulate this is to have someone hold your dog while you run away and call him. The person helping does not release the dog until he barks. I even make the dogs bark to get their food. |
|
|
|
Post by fussglogen on Jan 19, 2010 10:31:40 GMT -5
From a young age we don't do much with the dog without them being active (barking). In foundation protection work the bark initiates the movement of the tug. For us it is even carried over into obedience and into the reward. The dog may get a break and play command but they still have to bark to get the tug. The following article presents a glimpse at the philosophy: www.wcgssc.com/index.php?categoryid=24One other method that can stimulate this is to have someone hold your dog while you run away and call him. The person helping does not release the dog until he barks. I even make the dogs bark to get their food. Sorry, Steve, some how missed your reply! Thanks a lot for the articles. So far - no progress. We still do not bark. I tried with two dogs - this is what happened. Both on leash held separately. I show them a "sausage". My girl starts barking, gets the tug. While we play with her, my boy goes balistic on the leash but silently. We tried again and again. I also tried to back tie him but after a long fight from his side to get a toy, he gives up and sits on the ground but no barking. I think I will stop doing this with him for a while (after he is 12-13 months old) and then will try again. How is Ace and Hara doing? I hope you guys all right! |
|
|
|
Post by dobermandobbie on Dec 25, 2011 1:25:03 GMT -5
The dog may still be anxious with his surroundings. My Dobbie is not barking for 2 weeks when she first got here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jag on Jan 2, 2012 20:04:45 GMT -5
why would her not barking make you think she is anxious? I would think it would be the opposite way a round. the more a puppy barks at things it doesn't know, the more I think it has a nerve problems. a confident puppy doesn't care and is just happy with his/her surroundings. Honestly, I hate a dog that barks too much, it annoys me.
|
|
May be I want too much too soon... Here is my "silent" Dobie, lol 
). My point is that if my professional life will contunue being that crazy, it pretty much will take from me the ability to train to some higher than novice level. 
