Personal Protection newbie

[wylde]

Hi all ! I have a 12 month old girl and I am having some training issues. She is my 2nd dobe , my first one I trained for PP as well. But this one is a bit more hard headed. Great drive by the way. I have done her training a bit different. My other girl by 12 months old knew everything, but she lacked drive and in a pinch I wouldnt wanted to depend on her to actually"bite". This one I know would have no problems, but while teaching her bite, she will engage but there is not much action to it. She will bite the sleeve...but instead of shaking her head...growling or jerking, she will just bite the sleeve and hold on...no movement to her at all...infact she could go comatose and stand there holding it forever LOL. She practically shoves the sleeve down her throat, I mean its a FULL bite, but once shes connected...she just doesnt wanna move. I have tried to reward her or praise her when once in a blue moon she does give a little shake or let her "win" the sleeve, but once she wins it...she doesnt go anywhere.. she takes maybe one or two steps back and just stands there holding it. *sigh*
Does anyone have any good advice what I should try next? keep in mind that I have really just started the sleeve work and are just now trying to reward her with the sleeve...maybe I just need to give her a bit more time. I guess I am so used to my other dog that picked it up in no time...this one is a bit slower to "get" things.

[Vadim]

Hi Wylde,

The behavior you describe is actually a desired trait. A calm dog should be more clear headed in the fight and therefore better able to follow your instruction. As she gets older you will be able to add more pressure from the bad guy/agitator causing your dog to "counter" which could involve the the shaking or possibly even a harder bite. In the mean time with such a young dog I recommend you continue building her confidence.

I will also mention that there is a school of thought out there that says a PP dog should not bite and hold at all but rather continue to rebite all over the bad guy. This type of behavior is usually taught through Muzzle work. Check out this link for a few articles on muzzle training. www.uspcaregion12.com/content_33.php

[grabichler]

Hi Wylde,

Who are you working with? I think it would be great if you could provide a little bit more detail on what you think the 'training issue' is.

Also, this dog is only 12 months old, still a baby in my books. Not sure how much you want to put on a young dog like that. Maybe let her grow up and mature a bit?

[wylde]

Thanks...I guess I just have a issue mainly comparing her to my last dog. I usually do my own training, as there are no clubs near me ( I live way out in the boonies lol ) I am just used to my old dog biting and "fighting" trying to rip the offenders arm off lol.

Yes with my old dog..I really started training early as she was super intelligent and ran out of things to do and was eager to learn. NOW with this girl...I didnt want to hamper her drive or any intincts to bite with other training...so i have let her do her own thing and be "mouthy".

Vadim...you are describing her quite a bit actually. She is fairly calm, she puts alot of pressure into her bites and without letting go, will re-bite or bite harder as she is holding. And heck she bites and holds onto the sleeve and quite often doesnt want to let go...I practically have to pry her mouth open to get her to release. I suppose you are right, maybe I should just continue to build her confidence..she is still a baby LOL ( but she will always be a baby to me I suppose ) even tho she 28" tall and 80 lbs lol

[DeDe]

Hello, Wylde, and welcome to the forum.
First off, I have to say that you have posted a very interesting subject here.
Unfortunately, without being able to see a few things, it would be hard to give you any more than just a guess as to what is going on.
If possible, it would help to see:
1. The aggitation/action of the helper prior to the bite.
2. The action/fight of the helper once the dog is on the bite.
3. Your actions/reactions through both.
If you have a static helper, maybe this could be contributing to the problem? If you are a more static handler, maybe she could just feel that there is not enough back-up to engage into the fight?
I don't know if you could fully describe in words what it is that I would like to see to better assist you and your young girl. I will say, however, that for SchH, the full, firm, calm bite is just what is called for.
Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.

[Vadim]

Jan 11, 2010 17:12:34 GMT -5 wylde said:

I usually do my own training, as there are no clubs near me ( I live way out in the boonies lol ) I am just used to my old dog biting and "fighting" trying to rip the offenders arm off lol.

Since you are doing the training yourself it maybe that your current dog is simply more confident then your last dog. Why would she need to fight you, you are the pack leader and provider. She is young and just playing the game you want to play with her. Tell us where you live and we might be able to refer you to someone in your area. Lots of trainers live in the boonies

[DeDe]

Sorry, Wylde. I guess we were posting at the same time there.
Yes, I agree with Vadim. She's playing the game with you without any fight as it is not necessary with 'dad'.
Things should hopefully change once you get the chance to work her on another decoy and there's a reason for her to 'engage'.
Good luck!

[patrick]

Wylde

First of all if I would train a dog for PP I certainly wouldn't let him bite on MYSELF...second I wouldn't let him bite solely on a sleeve...

I've seen some PP here in Belgium in the past on some NVBK clubs....those dogs were REALLY being get hurt to a point were there was only one way for the dog and that is ripping the "bad guy" to shreds.....Those dogs were trained to bite in places were it really would hurt for a person (in the arm were the tricep is located or in the "lovehandle" area lol)

Now it is very logical that is something you can't do yourself as the owner of a dog because that would become VERY confusing for a dog wouldn't it?

[wylde]

Thanks for the advice...I will definately take it all to heart. I am just now introducing her to a sleeve...we have mainly been using tug toys and other materials, I do have someone who helps me, but as of yet, we havent had a chance to meet up and use this sleeve together. Yeah I get your point Patrick, it definately would confuse her and like DeDe and Vadim said...shes just playing with me I suppose and not putting much effort in it yet. ( ack !! Cant imagine being nailed in the "love handle" area...holy moly! I'd be crying like a baby !)

I guess Im just panicing for not much reason at this point...I have just felt a little weird about letting her get this mature and not working with her alot. Part of it was my idea and part was accidents ( she fracture a hip when a youngster, then by the time she healed and was given the ok by the vet, she went into heat....and once she came out, we fixed her and now she is all healed up from that soooo now I wanna start some training. ) I dont intend on anything serious like joining a club or anything at this point...this is just for my Own Personal protection/training/ fun ( although, I really would like to at some point ). I guess I just believe that a dog should be able to do or have some knowledge of what it was bred for. I wish here in the states that they would require the titling of at least one parent. Oops sorry...Im getting off topic.