My version...part 2

[DeDe]

One of my biggest pet-peeves is, and always has been, NAGGING! I hate to see a fairly new handler nagging their dog. Spouses and kids respond very poorly to this, why would their dogs be any different?
In a pack environment, a puppy is corrected very sternly for indiscretions and learns quickly what is not acceptable. Once the correction is given, the misdeed is basically forgotten. Why do humans feel the need to nag and stay angry with their dogs when they don’t learn?
Once I start formal training with my dogs, I make everything black and white. I give ONE command, not ask ten times. I give ONE good correction, not ten tugs. I PRAISE ALOT! Every correction is followed with praise when the action is correct.
With the e-collar, I remain the good guy. If the dog should get confused initially with the command due to distractions, whatever, I maintain the LOW level of stimulation while I assist the dog into the correct position. As soon as the dog is correct, the stimulation stops and praise immediately follows. Anger never enters the picture. Until the dog has PROVEN to me that it understands my commands, the only emotion it sees from me is happiness at its compliance. I keep these initial sessions short and fast so as not to lose my dogs interest.
Once the dog is ready to move to the next level of training, there is no longer any assistance offered to help the dog. At this point, it KNOWS why the stimulation is being applied and responds accordingly. It is at this stage that some of the corrections actually start to come from me to let the dog know that I am not pleased.
For instance, the ‘finish’. My dog has been doing this correctly for several weeks and has been quick and happy about it for the reward. Today, however, maybe there’s a distraction that seems to be more tempting. I will apply the stimulation (low) WHILE I give the command. Should the dog NOT be correct, the stimulation stays on while I give a prong correction without repeating the command. The dog has already shown that they know this and will usually give me a look that says, “Oh, shit. Sorry mom.” Praise once again is immediately given for the correct behavior.
Due to the nature of pack behavior, the dogs try to please the Alpha. With the low level e-collar training, my dogs learn very clearly what pleases me and are happy to do so. Granted, there will always be dogs that are not happy workers regardless of the methods used. I have not had this problem to date. All of my dogs are VERY happy workers.

[ronackerman]

Excellent article DeDe. I think it should everyone should be REQUIRED to take a course before they are allowed to buy an e-collar. Most folks just turn it up to the highest level and push the button when the dog doesn't obey a command. There are so many ways to use the e-collar correctly and I consider it one of the best tools in my "tool box". Thanks for the explanation of your "version". Hopfully everyone will read it and think about what the're doing.

[fussglogen]

It would be great to hear your method for teaching recall with e-collar. Thank you.

[fussglogen]

Oops, DeDe, I wanted to add your "karma" +1 but probably pressed the wrong button! Your karma should read "2"! Can somebody fix it?!?!? Sorry...

[DeDe]

The recall is actually one of the easier ones for us on the e-collar.
Since I don't actually use the collar itself until the dog has at least a general idea of the commands, we start the recall with their favorite reward - BITES!
Please remember from earlier that my dog is still wearing the e-collar, prong and fur-saver. Initially, I don't worry about the sit in front with the recall, just the speed at which the dog comes to me. Usually I will hold the tug in front of me and pop it up while I try to sidestep (note the word TRY) and allow the dog to grab the toy at full speed. While I am teaching the speedy recall with the command "HEIR", I am seperately teaching the dog the sit in front. I do this from maybe 4' in front of the dog. I use a seperate word initially until I have both halves where I want them. I use a food reward in the 'front' position by dropping it from my mouth for the dog to catch.
Once both halves are looking good, it's time to put them together. Personally I do this now with NO leash in hand since I get all fumbled up with them. I have just the controller, treats in my mouth and a reward tug stashed away. I now will leave my dog in a sit and only step about 6' in front of them. I press the button on LOW LEVEL stimulation (my dog has already learned that this means a command is coming), give the “Heir” command followed by a “Sit” command as the dog reaches me, release the button, give the treat reward and PRAISE as soon as the dog has complied. I may have to back up a step or two to get the dog to sit straight, but, he has complied with my commands and as soon as he is correct, I pop the tug for the final reward.
As we progress, I demand straighter and tighter sits. In just a few lessons I am back to a full recall distance with a flying dog. Although, I must admit, the younger ones take a little longer to figure out their own braking system…LOL

[fussglogen]

Thanks again, DeDe! It would be great if you guys will transfer those e-collar for dummies articles to a "begginer" corner! I think many n00bs can benefit from reading those.

[rosamburg]

Jan 8, 2010 17:27:52 GMT -5 DeDe said:

.
With the e-collar, I remain the good guy. If the dog should get confused initially with the command due to distractions, whatever, I maintain the LOW level of stimulation while I assist the dog into the correct position. As soon as the dog is correct, the stimulation stops and praise immediately follows. KNOWS why the stimulation is being applied and responds accordingly. It is at this stage that some of the corrections actually start to come from me to let the dog know that I am not pleased.

Here in lies the MAJOR problem, in your method, at least the way I hear you describing it. You are helping the dog get into position. At least in our system the stimulation starts and the dog has to work to get into the correct position. The dog MUST DO THE WORK not having you assist them in any way. ONCE the dog STARTS to work to get into position then the stims should stop. Not after they get there.

[DeDe]

Sorry, but, I believe you have quoted the above out of context.
I did state the in the very beginning of formal obedience - this is a very young dog - is the only time the assistance is offered until it has been set in the dogs mind that compliance to my commands is the ONLY option. After this point, all assistance stops.
The reason I do not stop the stimulation at this stage until the dog completes the task is very basic. The job is not done. As an older dog, undergoing refresher work, I can understand the release of the stimulation with the 'beginning' of compliance. But with a young dog, until it knows that it must perform the task completely and quickly, I do not agree with that.
As I stated in my first post, I know there are thousands of ways to use every tool. This is just the way that I do it. I would LOVE to hear more variances and ideas!