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Post by Tatiana on May 28, 2011 7:13:26 GMT -5
Hello!
I'm looking to get a dobermann for mondio, however most of my working dog experience has been with shepherds and malinois (despite my love for the dobermann).
As such I don't even know where to start in terms of breeders (apart from the usual - 'look at european lines'). Despite (in my opinion) a good puppy often being a 'hit and miss' kind of thing, I'd really appreciate it if anyone could give me advice on what breeders they'd normally go to, which dogs to keep your eye on for litters, etc. I will be based in the US, but have no issues with importing.
The only requirement that I do have is that the puppy can be both cropped and docked. I realize this limits a lot of excellent breeders, but I have the luxury of time on my hands, so I can allow for my aesthetic wishes!
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Post by tatiwoods on May 28, 2011 7:16:45 GMT -5
Sorry!! I thought I was signed in when I posted that message. Post is from ME!
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Post by Jag on May 28, 2011 8:49:43 GMT -5
an excellent breeder that's right here in the US who crops and docks is Wendy Schmitt of Landgraf Dobermans.
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Post by smccann on May 28, 2011 11:19:24 GMT -5
I work with a MR club in Maine and have been researching Dobermann lines and breeders for some time now with the extensive help of some very kind hearted Dobermann people. If you have questions please don't hesitate to contact me.
Take care,
Sarah McCann
smccann@securespeed.net
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Post by Vadim on May 28, 2011 17:09:17 GMT -5
Hi Tatiana,
Landgraf is a great choice and may have some pups available at the moment.
A few other California based options include
Adlercrest Dobermans
von Luka Dobermans
Incredible Dobermans
You may want to consider some options outside of California too so check out the classifieds section for some more ideas!
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Post by anneconroy on May 29, 2011 7:03:29 GMT -5
Sarah -- what would be your reccomendations for someone looking for a Doberman to do MR (not french)? And why??
Thx
anne conroy
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Post by sonterra on May 29, 2011 11:01:57 GMT -5
Hi in addition I would also hit up Terri Clay in Texas, I believe her kennel name is tejas. She has recently put a MR 1 on her female and competed with her at the nationals this year.
If you are looking internationall I would look at Dozarzallo in Spain, multiple dogs titled in mondio, active handlers, trainers and decoys.
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Post by tatiwoods on May 29, 2011 18:41:07 GMT -5
Thank you very much for all the input so far!!
Landgraff looks very promising, I'll definitely keep that one in mind! Also quite liked Terri Clay's kennel (Bell'Lavoro btw hehehe). Was a little unsure about some of the others, it kind of turns me off when breeders emphasize that they "GUARANTEE" good dogs. Though I understand they may be working hard to increase probabilities...
I was actually in contact with Dozarzallo a few days ago, and was really impressed with the effort they put into habituation/building up their pups. Unfortunately they do not crop/dock their dogs.
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Post by vitopup on May 29, 2011 20:00:33 GMT -5
I love my puppy from Warringhof. He's everything I have ever wanted in a dog. All their dogs are uncropped/docked though. Can I ask why you are set on cropped/docked? I understand everyone has their own personal preference. Just curious.
Scott
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Post by dobermanman on May 29, 2011 20:44:26 GMT -5
Also quite liked Terri Clay's kennel (Bell'Lavoro btw hehehe). . FYI Bell'Lavoro is the kennel of Vicky Brachfeld Terri Clary's kennel is Tejas (I think) but she has bred to a Bell'Lavoro male |
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Post by rosamburg on May 29, 2011 21:53:52 GMT -5
In the last day in the "litters" section there is a litter on the ground out of an Edertal bitch X Floyd of Utguard. Some (if not many) people import a dog and then crop/dock. It can be done, though I understand some people's reluctance to dock tails of an 8 week old puppy.
Personally with working line dogs bred in North America, I would take a long look at both individual dogs being bred as well as the combination/matching of individual traits of the breeding. It is very difficult because it is quite difficult to prove lines here because of the limited amount of experienced handlers in the Dobermann working dog world. While you have gotten some good recommendations you have to remember it can be a difficult process finding good working Dobermann's. The few breeders here who are trying to breed good working line dogs have a real challenge to find a good match, because there are only a handful of titled studs in all of North America. Good luck.
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Post by tatiwoods on May 30, 2011 7:36:23 GMT -5
@thomas. Thanks for clearing that up, it was quite late over here when I was looking through websites hehe! @scott. No worries, I get asked that a lot here (though usually not half as politely hahaha)! I guess I just really don't like how the dobermann looks with floppy ears (though I can forgive the tail)! Hehehe. With many breeds I don't see much difference, but with dobermanns it truly changes the way the dog is perceived; and despite this not being applicable to those who actually know what they're doing (esp. in the sporting world), it's easy to see why a non-cropped dog may not be taken seriously. I completely respect the fact some people don't want to put their dogs through aesthetic surgery; but as long as the vet knows what he's doing and the dog is the appropriate age, stress can be minimal or even none. Having said that though I would never crop/dock a dog past a certain age as the brain is considerably more myelinated, and other than this meaning more pain, there's the chance of it leading to behavioural problems, which I wouldn't want to risk. By far my favorite argument is that we should leave them as "nature intended." Because ultimately there is no such thing as a domestic dog that is "as nature intended," they are completely human-made. If it were up to nature most dogs wouldn't even exist!! Good thing we took it into our own hands, hahaha =D rosamburg Thanks so much for the advice! Here in the UK it's even harder to get good working lines (even in shepherds and malinois), and from what I've heard/seen the US is better but faces similar issues. Good thing I started my search early! Does anyone by any chance know what Russia is like in terms of working dobermans? |
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Post by rosamburg on May 30, 2011 11:13:02 GMT -5
aha =D rosamburg Thanks so much for the advice! Here in the UK it's even harder to get good working lines (even in shepherds and malinois), and from what I've heard/seen the US is better but faces similar issues. Good thing I started my search early! Does anyone by any chance know what Russia is like in terms of working dobermans? I overlooked the fact that you are in the UK. That does change the game as far as cropping/docking of course. There are no working line dog breeders that I am aware of in Russia. After Perestroika, they started importing and breeding western European show lines. I think it would be pretty rare to find any real Russian lines anymore. From what I understand from breeders there they were pretty sharp in temperament. It would be interesting to see what they were really like. I brought a puppy back from Moscow on my last trip there in 2004. She turned out to be a good dog and we were able to earn 6 Sch3 titles on her. However, based on what I have seen I was really lucky to find a dog with her level of nerve and prey drive. Most dogs that I have seen from Eastern Europe do not have her level of drive or nerve from what I can tell. For my tastes at this time, she was lacking in power and offensive fight drive that we like to see in working line dogs (at least for Schutzhund). In terms of drive she may have been actually pretty good for Ring as she had very thick nerve and high prey drive and when pressure came she had plenty of fight. An even bigger issue that would prevent me from looking at Russian or other Eastern European breeders is the health issues. Lots of DCM in E. European lines. Minimal health testing by breeders as well. Hara developed DCM at the age of 7 and eventually I put her down because of a tumor. We have a woman from Latvia who visits our club . She trained in Schutzhund there, and is well versed on Dobermann breeders in the Ukraine and Russia. She tells me she has not seen any Dobermann's from that region that compare with the dogs she sees at our club (including my current dogs). |
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Post by cashmando1 on May 30, 2011 21:50:07 GMT -5
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Post by smccann on May 30, 2011 22:42:49 GMT -5
Quote: "Sarah -- what would be your recommendations for someone looking for a Doberman to do MR (not french)? And why?? Thx anne conroy" I want to preference everything I write up front with this statement ~ THESE ARE MY OPINIONS. . . I've been training in Ring for years now, training with non herders that I own and live with and helping other club members by handling their herders. I think doing that has given me some idea of what dogs can 'do' Ring and which are not well suited for it. I want to be up front and say that I believe to compete at the upper levels in Ring you need a Mal, and a very good one at that, but I don't believe there is any reason why people can't hobby train and title in the lower levels with non herders. That doesn't mean I think a Dobermann can't make it to Ring III. What it means is the dog would have to be exceptional, the handler very knowledgeable and you would need a very good team/club behind you. To train in Ring, be that French, NVBK or MR I think you need a dog with high differential focus (being able to determine what is threat and what is distraction and to act accordingly), independence, intelligence and obviously the highly thrown around 'balanced drives' that everyone talks about in the sport world - prey and defense. If looking at MR specifically, I think you need a dog that is aware of it's surroundings at all times, not just focused on it's handler but isn't environmentally sensitive. The dog can not be rigid and must be able to perform learned skills in different scenarios. It must be able to think on it's own but also be under handler control. A dog that wants to learn and wants to please it's handler also makes this difficult sport easier. I also believe that Ring dogs must be on the smaller side and very athletic. You'll be hard pressed to find very big dogs, even in the herders, that can do the jump requirements in the upper Ring levels. Bottom line, Ring dogs must be versatile in intelligence and in body and they must love to bite just for the sake of biting. So how does that relate to finding a Dobermann that can do the above? In getting any dog for sport but especially a non herder, I think it's of real importance to find breeders who know the sport or who are willing to learn about the sport you are interested in. I believe in early imprinting, especially for MR and having a breeder that is experienced and knows the importance of this is very helpful. Let's face it, most of us will not have the pick of the litter. The breeder will manage those choices, so having a relationship with a knowledgeable dedicated breeder is very important. Beyond that I've learned my lesson about buying pups out of great sires or great dams or great sires AND dams. I'm looking for lines now and lines that have consistently produced good healthy working dogs. I'm looking at what 5 generations back did and what have their offspring done. What have sibs done? What have they produced? Another question to ask is who is breeding litters of puppies that are consistently being titled? I am NOT saying that it's easy to get a pup from these breeders and honestly I don't think it should be. Breeders should be select in who they sell to. A dog that would be good in Ring is potentially a hand full and difficult to live with and needs to be placed in the right home. I think a good breeder asks me just as many, if not more questions than I ask them. That said, I believe in asking lots of questions! Not sure if I answered the 'why' very well but I hope the detailed description makes the why self explanatory. If not, please ask! Unless you don't want to be submitted to more long 'windedness'! On that, sorry but it's a topic that's near and dear  Thanks for asking~ Sarah |
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Here is her website. 