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Post by Vadim on Apr 27, 2011 14:44:27 GMT -5
Most people understand that to get a Dobermann with the qualities needed to succeed in a working venue you must look to Euro lines. However there have been some NA breeders who have had success in producing succesful working dogs while continuing to use at least some NA lines.
Cara, Wittrock, Chalmar come to mind. Are there others? If so who are they? What were thier goals with these breedings?
Which NA lines tend to lend themselves better than others in this type of pursuit?
Maybe one of the kennel owners will stop by to tell us about thier experience and goals?
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Post by LRadcliffe on Apr 27, 2011 16:00:38 GMT -5
Hi Vadim, will you define what you mean by "producing successful working dogs" is it 1 or 2 dogs from a kennel with a title? or kennel lines that produce litters with titles? SAR, PP?? I find this a very interesting topic!
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Post by Vadim on Apr 27, 2011 16:15:14 GMT -5
Hi Lisa,
For discussion sake lets use whatever the lower bar is. I guess in this case producing a few dogs with titles or certifications for thier given field.
Seems to me, we should encourage those trying to improve the working ability of the NA Doberman Pinscher
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Post by John K. on Apr 27, 2011 16:15:29 GMT -5
there aren't any that i know of...
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Post by LRadcliffe on Apr 27, 2011 16:45:33 GMT -5
Yes, by all means let's encourage! my first dobermann was a German import very sharp very tough a one person dog a lot of dog for a teen but lived a nice long life. My next 2 were from NA lines and were great fun and companions. They had a lot of qualities to do some kind of work. At the time I did not do sport. I tried to research their lines but never could find any info. The people I met at that time were American dobermann people who I would say are a large part of why the dobermann breed went away from it's working roots in the USA.
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Nellie
Titled Dobermann
Member - Service Dogs of America
Posts: 186
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Post by Nellie on Apr 27, 2011 19:13:28 GMT -5
Okay, so, the lower bar, to me, would be the AKC.UKC obedience and agility titles.
It is my experience that the NA/EU dogs that do achieve SchH titles and such (biting sport titles) very seldom reproduce this when bred back to NA females. Or, is it that the working community does not take them serious and will not work with them? I do see more than a few Obedience/Agility titles on their offspring though.
I would hope that the goal of those breeders was to improve the temperament and workability of their lines. But, I am afraid to say that one simple outcross to the EU lines will not change a thing. It needs to be done consistantly and with purpose until the NA DobermaNN is whole again.
Nellie
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Post by Jag on Apr 27, 2011 21:00:34 GMT -5
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Post by Vadim on Apr 28, 2011 12:52:27 GMT -5
Ok let me ask another way, If you could not get a Dobermann from europe or one that comes from all Euro lines in the US, which breeders would you at least consider in the US/N.A. ?
Or would you leave the breed?
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Post by LRadcliffe on Apr 28, 2011 13:37:41 GMT -5
I would leave the breed at this point even for a companion dog, too many health problems, too many heart breaks, too much money. You can thank the americans for screwing up another breed! JMO
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Post by rafensoda on Apr 28, 2011 14:11:22 GMT -5
I don't know how far back you'd like the Euro dogs to be, but these come to mind... Beja Kansa BJF Blue Chip It would be tough, but I think I'd still have to have a Dobe. Even Chalmar has gone with a working line dog, so that has to tell you something.  |
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Post by Bitten on Apr 28, 2011 14:18:35 GMT -5
Aracuroru in WI
Dynasty in WI
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Post by grayghost on Apr 28, 2011 15:43:58 GMT -5
Ok let me ask another way, If you could not get a Dobermann from europe or one that comes from all Euro lines in the US, which breeders would you at least consider in the US/N.A. ? Or would you leave the breed? My Dobermann is an American bred companion dog, but if I were looking for a real working Dobermann I would go with Cara. Many of their dogs have earned working titles(degrees), and one is a working police dog. Plus Cara does complete health testing. No reason to leave the breed with dedicated American breeders like Cara, and a few others. |
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Post by dobermandobbie on Dec 25, 2011 1:01:45 GMT -5
What are the requirements if you want your dog to travel with you? Do they need anything like passports?
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Post by dobimouse on Dec 25, 2011 1:24:12 GMT -5
In America, the dog sport (IPO-sport) is not as popular as in Europe. The more difficult it is to breed working Dobers in America . I have noticed that for some years a few American breeders rethink and try to breed working-Dobers. That will not happen overnight! It's a long process! In Germany are breeders who try to mix confirmation-lines with working-lines, in my mind that's not a good idea unless the most working-lines are consolidated.
You all should support these NA-breeders who try their best to produce working-dobers!!
Ulrike
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Post by rosamburg on Dec 29, 2011 14:51:12 GMT -5
I would leave the breed at this point even for a companion dog, too many health problems, too many heart breaks, too much money. You can thank the americans for screwing up another breed! JMO I disagree entirely with this post. Though I would never consider North American AKC show line dogs (due to a lack of working ability), I would have to say that as a whole these breeders tend to be a lot further along in regards to health considerations than their counterparts in Europe. While of course there are some conscientious Euro breeders in regards to health, it seems to me many buried their heads in the sand when it came to health testing. This seems to be true with some working line breeders as well as the show people. Until very recently many neglected cardio testing. Another thing that really struck me when I went to the clubs in Germany was how many dogs I saw with huge bare spots on their coats, most likely indicating hypothyroidism that had gone untreated for too long. |
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