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Post by fussglogen on Jan 20, 2010 11:52:13 GMT -5
1. I want to buy this set to build a bite: cgi.ebay.com/DOG-TRAINING-FRENCH-LINEN-TUGS-POLICE-K9-SCHUTZHUND_W0QQitemZ380197593978QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item58858ae37aWhat do you think, guys? 2. I have a question - what is the preferable material for the tug? I tried to find some good quality "sausage" like I saw in seminars or in the club but the only tugs sold online are fire hose, jute or bite suit material. I believe that the one I am looking for is made from suide and it is pretty long and about 3 inches thick and has two handles. Anybody knows where can I buy tug like that? 3. What are the must-have tugs for a working pup? 4. What are the best bite pillows and bite builders out there one can buy online? (please, include links where to buy). Sorry for too many questions but this is what you get when you open n00b forum section, lol!  Thank you in advance, Fuss. |
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Post by sonterra on Jan 20, 2010 12:53:16 GMT -5
Hi Ann, There is a really great company in Langley BC called Dog Sport Gear. you can find them on the net at: www.dogsportgear.comThey have a great line of tugs, collars, toy, etc. They are super nice people and are avid schutzhund-ers themselves so they are knowledgable in industry. They also will custom make tugs/sleeves, etc so if you do not see it on their site, if you call and ask you may get what you want! They also carry suede tugs as well. IMHO you do not need all the stuff in that link you sent. However you do need to pick a sport as your equipment will need to be tailored to the sport. For example... sch uses a jute cover on the sleeve. So a jute tug would be the tug of choice. French ring uses a bitesuit made of french linen, so the tug of choice would be a french linen tug. I have seen some dogs who get very shocked at a fabric change when doing bitework... ie a french ring dog biting a jute tug or vise versa. Some dogs have no issues with biting any fabric and some get accustom to particular fabrics. As well a bite wedge is more a toy for a sch person as they like to build grip, whereas a ring person doesn't worry about grip in the same manner. I know many people in sch training that LOVE the bite wedge, so if you are planning on going towards sch style work a bite wedge would be a good investment. I prefer 2 handled small tugs for my own dogs, because I HATE playing one handed with a dog. Maybe I am just not that strong but I always use 2 hands to play with the dog. In ringsport we use our small tugs a great deal to reward the dog for recalls, etc... so small tugs are very useful and neccessary tools for us. I do not ever use firehose tugs. I have found that they are VERY harsh on the dogs teeth. Any other questions feel free to ask! That is what this section is for!! Tamara McIntosh |
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Post by fussglogen on Jan 20, 2010 14:15:26 GMT -5
Thank you so much, Tamara, as usual, for your help and quick reply! I just placed an order with dogsportgear! Here is what I ordered: three - different leather/suede 10" tugs - all of them with two handles. one - big 4"x24" bite suit tug with two handles one - two handle suit bite wedge with hidden handles one - jute ball - this one goes to my girl (thanks to Leanne who recommended this toy to me on the ME seminar  ) one - HS fur saver for my boy! He is a big boy now, lol! I should have ordered last week. This way I would have all that by this weekend's seminar....rrrrrrr... PS Tamara, I did make a choice. It is FR. I talked to John from CRA and will send them my application next week  |
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Post by sonterra on Jan 20, 2010 14:36:36 GMT -5
Hi,
if you call and talk to Ralph or Shellie they can express courier them to you and you still might get the stuff this weekend.
Great news, glad to hear it we always need more dobes in ring!
I know you can't make sunday training, but I can see if I can find a place to train on sat or sunday nights so you can get that training in if you want.
Tamara McIntosh
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Post by fussglogen on Jan 20, 2010 14:51:16 GMT -5
Oh, Tamara, Sat nights would be GRRRREAT! Just left a message for DSG. Hopely, they will be able to ship it ASAP. |
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Post by dobebob on Jan 20, 2010 15:52:31 GMT -5
Not to interfere here- "but" [there's always a "but"] LOL
Michael Ellis recommends young dogs be started using tugs without handles, and being held in the hand. Reason- handles are a distraction to the dog- difficult to keep them from flailing around, and enticing the young dog to bite them. I agree.
He cuts the handles off of tugs for young dogs until they learn to target.
The "package" of tugs listed on E-Bay is made by Can Am Dogsports in Quebec.
It is owned, and made by Pierre Lafond, and I've bought lots of gear from him as well. good to deal with, and good prices.
Of course I also deal with DogSport Gear, and they too are very good to deal with- sometimes a bit "pricy" as they do all their pricing in U.S. dollars even though shipped from Langley B.C.??
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Post by sonterra on Jan 20, 2010 19:45:13 GMT -5
Hi Bob,
we all have our own preferances. Mine is the two handled tug. A tug with no handles is hard to play with as there is nothing to hang on to except the tug. I find that dogs can pull much harder than I can hang on. I like the added benefit of the attatchment to my arms! :-)
I think that it is not that hard for a person to place the dog where they want them on the tug.
But there is a reason that there are all kinds of tugs made... one handle, two handle, no handle, bite wedge, small tug, short tug, french linen, jute, suede, firehose, etc... Because all kinds of people buy them! :-)
Tamara
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Post by flashthe3rd on Sept 30, 2010 17:53:28 GMT -5
DogSport Gear sell the same things from www.rayallen.com better prices then ray has tho thanks for this helpful post, im tryin to figure out what i need for my dogie |
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Post by sailorgirl on Jan 21, 2012 0:38:35 GMT -5
Anyone mention the bite RAG? I have a few different bite rags of french linen and leather. They are helpful for puppy tugs as well as can be used on a flirt pole.
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Post by dobermanman on Jan 21, 2012 11:01:45 GMT -5
Rags (especially on a flirt pole) are OK for puppies to build drive, but you want to get them on a tug as soon as possible to work on grip and targeting.
Re: One handle, two handle, no handle tugs
ME is my favorite trainer but I ain't cutting of any tug handles when I get put my hands through the handles and still grab the actual tug itself to avoid excessive movement and not have to worry about sewing the handles back on when the puppy gets more experience:-)
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Post by sailorgirl on Jan 21, 2012 20:19:17 GMT -5
Thank You! I was thinking the same thing about just weaving my hands into the handles. Save some extra $ instead of buying the tugs all over again. Crap. Once again, differing advice. Watched the power of playing tug last night and Ellis says no real tug work until after 6 months except for bite rag. LOL
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Post by tracey on Jan 23, 2012 13:05:10 GMT -5
I start tug play from the beginning myself..but we are know that no trainers can agree on anything:)
I have found the longest lasting tugs to be made out of French linen, not jute. The Jute IMO are not worth purchasing if you use tugs a lot, they rip apart the quickest.
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Post by rosamburg on Jan 24, 2012 1:35:53 GMT -5
I also prefer the french linen. Also start on tugs much younger than 6 months, though not during teething. Teaching the out as a young puppy is much easier that way.
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Post by sailorgirl not signed in on Jan 24, 2012 11:47:37 GMT -5
Steve-So with a young puppy teaching out do you hold the tug immobilized and tell them OUT or do you wait till they drop it and then say OUT to mark it and reward? Or both? Do you offer food when the game is over as a swap for taking the tug/finishing the game? Also, are you teaching basic obedience commands like platz and sitz during this time? Most people I have spoken to do not teach obedience until after bite work has been established.
For example, Ed Frawley does not let anyone touch his puppies. Also, he does not take dogs to meet a helper or watch at a club until after they are 12 months old.
I think this is extremely old school and damaging for socialization of a puppy you also want to fit in with your family. I'm having a difficult time trying to get a little from everyone to use because there are so many different opinions about everything from tugs to collars.
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Post by rosamburg on Jan 25, 2012 2:39:17 GMT -5
We push the tug to the ground to make it dead and then when the puppy outs we then give the out command and go back to prey work and bite once the puppy has actively started barking again. The out command thus also becomes the signal to bark. This is the perfect setup for guarding exercises later. We don't use food during the tug work. For stubborn puppies who are reluctant to out we will apply pressure toward the tug on the leash/collar for to engage reverse response behavior in the puppy. Someone mentioned just calling their name to get them to release. I don't think I would have had much success with Cairo using that approach but every puppy is different.
We will do positive, motivational training only with young puppies, sit and platz, position, focus, etc. Nothing beyond that. We keep it fun and silly at that point. Nothing serious in terms of demand in ob until probably 9-11 months (depending on the developmental stage of the puppy or young dog). At that point there would be a lot of attention paid to focus and introduction of distractions and conflict.
We do not introduce the helper until after 12 months. The puppies can watch from the sidelines. Anything they witness would only come across as prey anyway. At WC young puppies are allowed to be handled by other people at the club. There would be a point for many of them depending on temperament where we might resist having people handle them. For a very high nerve dog might even have certain other people be a bit of an asshole to them (this generally is not made to be a big issue). With our style of training most dogs will figure out soon enough not everyone in their life is their friend. However it really, depends on the temperament of the young dog/puppy.
With Cairo I have encouraged socialization and contact with most everyone. She is a bit sharp so having her know why she is on the field and seeing the helper as the bad guy is not an issue. With Ace (my daughters dog) it would be the opposite. He sees everyone as his friend, even a helper, right up to the point of getting cracked on the snout with a whip (I don't think many people would confuse him for Einstein).
Personally, I think if you can find a system you like I think it is best to follow that. Schutzhund is difficult enough to come to understand without getting a lot of different and often opposing advice. Start with the club you plan to go to. Hopefully there is some sort of system there. Even if there is not a uniform system you could take direction from the person who seems the most knowledgeable.
It can be a mistake for a newbie to start taking a bunch of information from a lot of different people to the point where they will not accept help from the people in their club who are there trying to help them. If you are there for a while and learn enough to realize that it will not continue to meet your needs and there is another choice that better suits you then that is quite another thing. Too many people have gotten themselves ostracized from clubs because they are getting direction from people who are not even there to see the work.
It can be frustrating to be at a club where there is no uniform system and no clear leadership, especially as a newbie. I have been to clubs where everyone (especially in obedience) seems to be doing their own thing. You could ask 5 different club members the same question in regards to training or what approach to use and get 5 different answers. If this is the case go to the one person who is getting the best results.
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