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Post by Christina C. on Oct 23, 2011 17:59:09 GMT -5
Had a helper up from South Africa to do a seminar this October and thought I'd share this link of Naavi (Kye's Surefire Phoenix) doing a bit of bitework. We have a LONG way to go before we go for our SchI but we're seeing lots of improvement! www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9tjRREJyus
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Apollo
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 165
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Post by Apollo on Oct 26, 2011 11:10:36 GMT -5
Look how i found here
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Post by Christina C. on Dec 4, 2011 9:40:40 GMT -5
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Post by landgraf on Dec 5, 2011 12:05:32 GMT -5
Keep up the good work!
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Post by pcho on Jan 25, 2012 2:23:00 GMT -5
May I ask why using harness? Why not teaching bite pull pull pull. Curious. Thx
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Post by rosamburg on Jan 25, 2012 3:13:32 GMT -5
May I ask why using harness? Why not teaching bite pull pull pull. Curious. Thx You will probably find most people training Dobermann's are using a harness in protection work. I cannot answer why. Personally I think they are good for exercising your dog on a bicycle as well as to cut up and use as tracking articles. But that is my opinion.
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patrick
Titled Dobermann
Posts: 133
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Post by patrick on Jan 25, 2012 18:10:48 GMT -5
May I ask why using harness? Why not teaching bite pull pull pull. Curious. Thx You will probably find most people training Dobermann's are using a harness in protection work. I cannot answer why. Personally I think they are good for exercising your dog on a bicycle as well as to cut up and use as tracking articles. But that is my opinion. ;D Exactly.....Or another favourite: a harness, a pinchcollar and a fursaver all worn at the same time.....Looks tuff though but IMO not usefull at all...
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Post by smccann on Jan 29, 2012 14:14:12 GMT -5
Many use an 'agitation harness' so there is no conflict in the dog's mind. In other words if you use a correction collar for OB you don't want the dog to think it's being corrected during bite work. Others use them to prevent neck/trachea injury and increase air. If you've ever worked a brachycephalic youngin' and had them choke themselves out you'd use a harness too.
Our Ring club occasionally uses the harness, flat and pinch if a dog is in need of targeting help. Honestly it takes a lot of coordination and hell if it works for someone why bash it?
To the OP ~ Good for you! Keep training! Sarah
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Post by rosamburg on Jan 30, 2012 0:40:02 GMT -5
Many use an 'agitation harness' so there is no conflict in the dog's mind. In other words if you use a correction collar for OB you don't want the dog to think it's being corrected during bite work. Others use them to prevent neck/trachea injury and increase air. If you've ever worked a brachycephalic youngin' and had them choke themselves out you'd use a harness too. Our Ring club occasionally uses the harness, flat and pinch if a dog is in need of targeting help. Honestly it takes a lot of coordination and hell if it works for someone why bash it? To the OP ~ Good for you! Keep training! Sarah I was mostly joking. I understand why people think they need to use them. In terms of no conflict that is exactly why I would never use one and use a pinch instead.... Prey drive + conflict= power. I like power in a dog.
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Post by smccann on Jan 30, 2012 9:05:23 GMT -5
I was mostly joking. I understand why people think they need to use them. In terms of no conflict that is exactly why I would never use one and use a pinch instead.... Prey drive + conflict= power. I like power in a dog. Honestly I posted for those who really don't know why people use them and to back up the OP who might be feeling attacked at this point for doing what their trainer told them to do rather than supported for working their dog. S
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Post by vitopup on Jan 30, 2012 9:35:43 GMT -5
I guess this is just another case of "to each there own". I have had many people tell me to put my dog in a harness(including the breeder). Although I agree about potential neck problems with the breed. I personally think most of those would come from being stuffed on a longbite/backup. Not from pulling to hard on a leash. I tried both ways with my young dog. For ME personally I like the prong. I don't find that my dog thinks of it as a correction at all. When the dog goes to strike he has a loose line, so he shouldn't be correcting himself when going for the bite. After the grip I apply pressure by acting as a post and allow the helper to pull against the line. My dog doesn't like feeling that conflict from the prong and starts pulling to relieve that pressure. I find that also makes him bite harder and more powerful so he CAN pull. If a dog has a soft bite and pulls he will slip off the sleeve/tug and will lose the grip. He must bite hard/full and pull to relieve the pressure and get to walk off the field with the sleeve. When I used a harness, his grips were not as hard and powerful and he went to more thrashing on the sleeve, which then turned into his grip getting looser and weaker. If you get results that you are happy with, that's what's important. I am the only Dobe on the field where I train, so we tend to stay away from all the "Dobe gadgets" that I see other people using. Again, to each there own. Good luck with which ever method you choose. The breeder of my dog uses harnesses on all their dogs. They have been to the IDC world championships on more than one occasion, so it must work for them. I think the style of training someone uses has to match the handler as well as the dog.
Scott
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Post by dobermanman on Jan 30, 2012 10:39:24 GMT -5
Prong vs Harness vs Flat collar can be as simple as watch your dog? :-) If the dog is having trouble breathing? Put him on a harness. If he seems distracted by a prong "correction" ? Put him on a flat collar or harness I think a prong can be used as both correction (while on the live ring) and aggression drive building when on both rings. Then of course the main thing is.............what is the decoy doing? If you don't have a decoy who knows how to read a dog and react properly. It's not going to matter what the dog is wearing.
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Post by smccann on Jan 30, 2012 10:58:41 GMT -5
Exactly Dobermanman! ;D
And thanks Scott for appreciating that it is something that works for some and "to each his own". I do have to say that it truly isn't a Doberman gadget though, many GSD people that I worked with in the past used them and many AB people use them because their dogs choke themselves out on collars. In fact if you Google 'agitation harness' I'll stick my neck out and bet that most of the pictures will be of GSDs wearing them. I could be wrong but that's my best bet!
One side note about prong work ~ using a prong to build drive is not something I think most TD's worth anything would put in the hands or someone new to the sport or new to handling. JMO though!
Again, if the OP is still on board, good luck! Keep training! Sarah
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Post by rosamburg on Jan 31, 2012 11:48:37 GMT -5
Exactly Dobermanman! ;D One side note about prong work ~ using a prong to build drive is not something I think most TD's worth anything would put in the hands or someone new to the sport or new to handling. JMO though! I think a good TD will instruct a new handler on the proper use of a pinch collar and continuously oversee the work.
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Post by vitopup on Jan 31, 2012 13:54:19 GMT -5
I would agree 100% Steve. Regardless of which ever technique the club uses, the TD should be teaching the handler the proper techniques and following the progression. The only other thing to do would be to let the TD handle your dog(or use another technique). While some people do that also, it's not something I personally like. I want my dog to know I'm handling him. He must work for me on the training field, just like he must work for me on the trial field. Having someone else handle your dog, especially as a newbie is not helping you progress as a handler either. But again, that's just the way I prefer it. I've found most dogs do the work(pulling) on their own once introduced to the prong. I think most will try to pull on the sleeve just so they can relieve the pressure. But yes you also must have a good helper who knows how to read each dog and understand how much pressure to apply and make sure they win as long as they are pulling.
Scott
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